1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Another reason to hate the French: They're pretty good at this anti-terror stuff

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Oski2005, Jul 13, 2005.

  1. Oski2005

    Oski2005 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2001
    Messages:
    18,100
    Likes Received:
    447
    Reading about France's policy towards terror suspects is a wet dream come true for some of you. basso, try not to hurt yourself when you stand up.

    Help From France Key In Covert Operations
    Paris's 'Alliance Base' Targets Terrorists

    By Dana Priest
    Washington Post Staff Writer
    Sunday, July 3, 2005; A01

    PARIS -- When Christian Ganczarski, a German convert to Islam, boarded an Air France flight from Riyadh on June 3, 2003, he knew only that the Saudi government had put him under house arrest for an expired pilgrim visa and had given his family one-way tickets back to Germany, with a change of planes in Paris.

    He had no idea that he was being secretly escorted by an undercover officer sitting behind him, or that a senior CIA officer was waiting at the end of the jetway as French authorities gently separated him from his family and swept Ganczarski into French custody, where he remains today on suspicion of associating with terrorists.

    Ganczarski is among the most important European al Qaeda figures alive, according to U.S. and French law enforcement and intelligence officials. The operation that ensnared him was put together at a top secret center in Paris, code-named Alliance Base, that was set up by the CIA and French intelligence services in 2002, according to U.S. and European intelligence sources. Its existence has not been previously disclosed.

    Funded largely by the CIA's Counterterrorist Center, Alliance Base analyzes the transnational movement of terrorist suspects and develops operations to catch or spy on them.

    Alliance Base demonstrates how most counterterrorism operations actually take place: through secretive alliances between the CIA and other countries' intelligence services. This is not the work of large army formations, or even small special forces teams, but of handfuls of U.S. intelligence case officers working with handfuls of foreign operatives, often in tentative arrangements.

    Such joint intelligence work has been responsible for identifying, tracking and capturing or killing the vast majority of committed jihadists who have been targeted outside Iraq and Afghanistan since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, according to terrorism experts.

    The CIA declined to comment on Alliance Base, as did a spokesman for the French Embassy in Washington.

    Most French officials and other intelligence veterans would talk about the partnership only if their names were withheld because the specifics are classified and the politics are sensitive. John E. McLaughlin, the former acting CIA director who retired recently after a 32-year career, described the relationship between the CIA and its French counterparts as "one of the best in the world. What they are willing to contribute is extraordinarily valuable."

    The rarely discussed Langley-Paris connection also belies the public portrayal of acrimony between the two countries that erupted over the invasion of Iraq. Within the Bush administration, the discord was amplified by Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, who has claimed the lead role in the administration's "global war on terrorism" and has sought to give the military more of a part in it.

    But even as Rumsfeld was criticizing France in early 2003 for not doing its share in fighting terrorism, his U.S. Special Operations Command was finalizing a secret arrangement to put 200 French special forces under U.S. command in Afghanistan. Beginning in July 2003, its commanders have worked side by side there with U.S. commanders and CIA and National Security Agency representatives.

    Organizing Alliance Base

    Alliance Base, headed by a French general assigned to France's equivalent of the CIA -- the General Directorate for External Security (DGSE) -- was described by six U.S. and foreign intelligence specialists with involvement in its activities. The base is unique in the world because it is multinational and actually plans operations instead of sharing information among countries, they said. It has case officers from Britain, France, Germany, Canada, Australia and the United States.

    The Ganczarski operation was one of at least 12 major cases the base worked on during its first years, according to one person familiar with its operations.

    "It's really an effort to come up with innovative ideas and deal with some of the cooperation issues," said one CIA officer familiar with the base. "I don't know of anything like it."

    Factions within the intelligence services of several countries opposed a multinational approach, according to current and former U.S. and European government officials who described its inception. The CIA's Counterterrorist Center did not want to lose control over all counterterrorism operations; the British service did not want to dilute its unique ties to Washington; Germany was not keen to become involved in more operations.

    And no country wanted to be perceived as taking direction from the CIA, whose practice of extraordinary renditions -- secretly apprehending suspected terrorists and transferring them to other countries without any judicial review -- has become highly controversial in Europe. In Italy, 13 alleged CIA operatives are accused of kidnapping a radical Egyptian cleric off the streets of Milan in 2003.

    To play down the U.S. role, the center's working language is French, sources said. The base selects its cases carefully, chooses a lead country for each operation, and that country's service runs the operation.

    The base also provides a way for German case officers to read information from their own country's law enforcement authorities, sources said. German law bars criminal authorities from sharing certain information directly with their intelligence agencies.

    French law, by contrast, encourages intelligence sharing among its police and security services. In fact, since the Napoleonic Code was adopted in 1804, French magistrates have had broad powers over civil society. Today, magistrates in the French Justice Department's anti-terrorism unit have authority to detain people suspected of "conspiracy in relation to terrorism" while evidence is gathered against them.

    The top anti-terrorism magistrate, Judge Jean-Louis Bruguiere, has said that in the past decade, he has ordered the arrests of more than 500 suspects, some with the help of U.S. authorities. "I have good connections with the CIA and FBI," Bruguiere said in a recent interview.

    In France, which has a Muslim population reaching 8 percent -- the largest in Europe -- U.S. and French terrorism experts are desperate to take terrorist-group recruiters and new recruits off the streets, and have been willing to put their own anti-terrorism laws into the service of allies to lure suspects such as Ganczarski from abroad.

    "Yes, without a doubt there are some cases where we participate that way," one senior French intelligence official said.

    France sent its interrogators to Guantanamo Bay to gather evidence that could be used in French court against the French detainees the United States was holding there. France is the only one of six European nations that continues to imprison detainees returned to it from the U.S. military facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

    Bruguiere and other French intelligence officials like to note dryly that France first realized it had become a target of al Qaeda-style jihadists when a group of Algerian radicals hijacked an airliner with the intent of crashing it into the Eiffel Tower in 1994. They viewed the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon as another, if much larger, part of the jihadist campaign against Western civilization.

    So it did not surprise many intelligence officers when, in the days after the attacks, President Jacques Chirac issued an edict to French intelligence services to share information about terrorism with the U.S. intelligence agencies "as if they were your own service," according to two officials who read it.

    The steady, daily flow of encrypted messages increased. "We saw a quantitative and qualitative difference in the degree of detail in the information," said Alejandro Wolff, the second-in-charge at the U.S. Embassy here, whose portfolio includes fighting terrorism.

    One CIA veteran with knowledge of the U.S.-French intelligence work estimates that the French have detained about 60 suspects since the end of 2001, some with the help of the CIA. "They do as much for us as the British and in some ways more -- if you ask them," said a recently retired senior intelligence official who worked closely with France and other European countries.

    France was also an early and willing collaborator in other parts of the world, allowing the CIA to fly its top-secret, armed Predator drone, still controversial inside the Pentagon, from France's air base in the former French colony of Djibouti. Its mission was to kill al Qaeda figures on a classified CIA list of "high-value targets." On Nov. 3, 2002, CIA officers operating remote controls from the air base took their first shot, killing Abu Ali al-Harithi, the mastermind of the October 2000 attack on the destroyer USS Cole, and six others, including Ahmed Hijazi, a naturalized U.S. citizen, in a Yemeni desert.

    The broader cooperation between the United States and France plays to the strengths of each side, according to current and former French and U.S. officials. The CIA brings money from its classified and ever-growing "foreign liaison" account -- it has paid to transport some of France's suspects from abroad into Paris for legal imprisonment -- and its global eavesdropping capabilities and worldwide intelligence service ties. France brings its harsh laws, surveillance of radical Muslim groups and their networks in Arab states, and its intelligence links to its former colonies.

    "There's an easy exchange of information," said Pierre de Bousquet de Florian, director of France's domestic CIA, the Directorate of Territorial Surveillance, who declined to comment on specifics of the relationship. "The cooperation between my service and the American service is candid, loyal and certainly effective."

    France's willingness to share its dossiers on terrorists has helped the United States make some of its most significant convictions, including those of Ahmed Ressam, who was stopped at the Canadian border on his way to attempt to blow up Los Angeles International Airport in 1999, and Zacarias Moussaoui, a Moroccan who once lived in France and is the only person in the United States to have pleaded guilty in the Sept. 11 hijacking plot.
    Tension Over Iraq

    In the run-up to the Iraq war, the White House drew the battle lines between countries that were tough on terrorists -- the administration included Iraq in the mix -- and those that were not. France's government believed U.N. inspections had successfully contained Saddam Hussein's development of weapons programs, and Bruguiere saw no connection between Iraq and al Qaeda. At the Defense Department, on Capitol Hill and elsewhere, many cast France's opposition to war as evidence it was a slacker when it came to fighting terrorism.

    French fries became "freedom fries" on Air Force One and in congressional cafeterias. Rumsfeld prohibited general officers from telephoning their French counterparts, grounded U.S. planes at the Paris Air Show and disinvited the French from Red Flag, a major U.S. military exercise in which they had participated for decades.

    Three months into the dispute, the State Department and the CIA made a case for France, citing its intelligence cooperation. Bush eventually told Rumsfeld to desist, according to two former State Department officials. Then-Secretary of State Colin L. Powell wrote a memo saying that punishing the French was not U.S. policy. A. Elizabeth Jones, the assistant secretary of state for European and Eurasian affairs, kept it on top of her desk. "I frequently needed to be able to pull it out and quote it to my Pentagon colleagues," Jones said.

    But Rumsfeld persisted a year later, excluding the French Air Force from the Red Flag exercise in 2004.

    Rumsfeld's symbolic jabs baffled some officials inside the Bush administration. "Most things the secretary of defense did I could understand, even if I disagreed with him," said Lawrence B. Wilkerson, former chief of staff to Powell. "On this one, it was totally irrational, even dumb."

    The intelligence services tried to insulate themselves from the public fray.

    "The French were very keen on demonstrating there was no drop-off at all," said Wolff, the U.S. diplomat here. "There was never any sense of this spilling over. There was an effort on both sides to compartmentalize" the differences.

    The same was true for the CIA and other U.S. intelligence agencies, which report a steady, daily flow of encrypted messages on terrorism between the CIA and its French counterpart.

    "The relations between intelligence services in the United States and France has been good, even during the transatlantic dispute over Iraq, for practical reasons," Bruguiere said. "If you want to have a better grasp of a difficult situation, you have to share intelligence real time."
    The Ganczarski Operation

    Ganczarski, a metallurgist from the industrial Ruhr district in Germany, had been radicalized by a Saudi cleric touring European mosques in the early 1990s, studied Islam on a religious scholarship in the kingdom, traveled to Afghanistan four times, trained in al Qaeda camps, met Osama bin Laden, and returned to Germany from his last trip nine days before Sept. 11, 2001.

    Intelligence officials say he was part of a patient, post-9/11 al Qaeda plan to activate European converts, including failed British "shoe-bomber" Richard Reid. Ganczarski's cell phone was the last number that a suicide bomber who killed 21 people on the island of Djerba called in April 2002. Some of the casualties were French, which gave Bruguiere legal grounds to arrest Ganczarski.

    On May 20, 2003, an urgent bit of intelligence was fed into Alliance Base: Ahmed Mehdi, an associate of Ganczarski, had just booked a 14-day vacation to the French island of Reunion in the Indian Ocean.

    Mehdi, then a 34-year-old Moroccan who had lived near Ganczarski in Germany, was under surveillance and showing a worrisome interest in remote-control detonators. German authorities, who did not have enough evidence to arrest him or Ganczarski, believed Mehdi was planning an attack on Reunion.

    Mid-level case officers working at Alliance Base met to devise a plan: They would entice first Mehdi, then Ganczarski, to France. Bruguiere would lock them up on suspicion of associating with terrorists.

    The CIA arranged for an asset to suggest that Mehdi stop in Paris on his way to Reunion to surveil targets. Mehdi, Alliance Base learned from wiretaps, worried that France would not give him a visa, which he needed because he is Moroccan. On cue, the French services arranged for a visa. The Germans monitored calls and contacts there for a change of plans.

    On June 1, French authorities apprehended Mehdi at Charles de Gaulle International Airport in Paris. He was sent to Fresnes Prison outside Paris. Two days later, on June 3, 2003, Ganczarski was there, too.

    Unbeknownst to the two men, they were held in cells just yards from each other. Authorities used the information gained from one to question the other. Within days, Mehdi told Bruguiere's investigators about the plot, the network and Ganczarski. Investigators now believe that Mehdi has links to al Qaeda's Hamburg cell that plotted the Sept. 11 attacks and that Ganczarski associated directly with Sept. 11 architect Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.

    Alliance Base's role in the operation was noted obliquely on June 11, 2003, by Interior Minister Nicholas Sarkozy. Speaking before Parliament, he said, "This arrest took place thanks to the perfect collaboration between the services of the great democracies."
     
    #1 Oski2005, Jul 13, 2005
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2005
  2. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2002
    Messages:
    14,289
    Likes Received:
    5,251
    While the world attempts to protect itself from terrorists who purposefully kill innocents, the liberals are girding to protect terrorists' rights. Imagine if the front against terror was united?
     
  3. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2002
    Messages:
    16,596
    Likes Received:
    494
    Yeah, just imagine if GWB had not wasted the good will and unified front the entire world had in the days following 9/11 and through the campaign in Afghanistan.
     
  4. basso

    basso Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    29,765
    Likes Received:
    6,442
    targeting kids. if only the vicarious terrorists on the board offered as much sympathy to terror's littlest victims as they do to the terrorists themselves.

    --
    BAGHDAD -- A suicide bomber in an explosives-laden SUV killed at least 27, including an American soldier, late this morning in the deadliest insurgent attack in more than two months.

    <...>

    Many, if not most of the dead were children loitering and playing near U.S. soldiers at an impromptu checkpoint in Baghdad al-Jadida, a lower-middle class residential district populated by Shiites, Sunnis and Christians.

    Near the charred, shrapnel-scarred bombing scene women draped in black abayas wept as they walked by, and dazed children with tears in their eyes wandered amid bits of metal and bloody human remains. A pile of children's slippers lay on the street.

    "My cousin Mustafa was killed," said 11-year-old Mohammed Nouredin, gesturing toward a blackened engine block in the middle of the street. "That is part of his bicycle. His coffin was sent to Najaf," the traditional burial ground for Iraqi Shiites.

    http://www.latimes.com/news/nationw...aq_lat,0,5496102.story?coll=la-home-headlines
     
  5. Oski2005

    Oski2005 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2001
    Messages:
    18,100
    Likes Received:
    447
    The point of this thread was about France and how helpful they've been in hunting down terrorists. What I mentioned about their own laws was to point out how they do things the way you guys want them done here yet you continue to bad mouth them and their contributions. Hopefully this clarification will get things back on track.
     
  6. krosfyah

    krosfyah Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2001
    Messages:
    7,437
    Likes Received:
    1,099
    And just think...these kids would still be alive today had W not waged war on Iraq in search for WMD (ahem...oil).
     
  7. HayesStreet

    HayesStreet Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 1999
    Messages:
    8,506
    Likes Received:
    181
    Or they could have died from sanctions or they could have been killed by Saddam or....
     
  8. NJRocket

    NJRocket Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2001
    Messages:
    7,242
    Likes Received:
    27
    Or I suppose we could just imagine if 9-11 still meant 11 minutes past 9.
     
  9. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    48,934
    Likes Received:
    17,537
    Once again Basso you are just throwing out insulting claimes without a shred of reality or proof.

    I have not seen anybody on this board of any political persuasion have sympathy for terrorists.

    You to act like that time and time again, and have been asked for one example of that kind of behavior and have failed to every provide one. Yet you continue to make such claims.

    I wish we could have more conservatives with a higher standard for discussion and debate than accusations that ring false time and time again.
     
  10. langal

    langal Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2004
    Messages:
    3,824
    Likes Received:
    91
    Those who actually want to appease (and/or support) the terrorists are an extremely small minority. Yes they are usually leftists and undoubtedly were against the Iraqi war and most definitely hate GW - but they definitely do not represent the views of liberals or the anti-war crowd as a whole.

    I think all of the liberals on this board supported the efforts to topple the Taliban. It is quite an implausible reach to consider those that opposed the Iraqi conquest as terrorist sympathizers.

    I'm a conservative and now (after the WMD's turned out to be nonexistent) look back and agree that the invasion was perhaps not the best way to combat terrorism. Resources could probably have been better spent elsewhere. Osama, IMHO, is a bigger catch than Saddam. I'm no expert - but if we spent comparable resources to hunt dow Osama as we did with Saddam - we may have succeeded by now.
     
  11. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    48,934
    Likes Received:
    17,537
    I agree with you that there are a few extreme cases on the left that don't want military action against terrorists or would even go as far as to appease them.

    There are extreme cases on the right that want to remove all minorities from the U.S.

    I don't believe that anybody in either category posts on this board.

    You won't find many on the board accusing the right wingers on this board of wanting to send anyone who black to Africa.
     
  12. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2001
    Messages:
    15,109
    Likes Received:
    2,144
    It is political gold for American's to bash the French, AND VICE VERSA. We are allied with France, and have been for a long time, but the populations have negative views of each other, so the leaders put on a show of opposition.
     
  13. SWTsig

    SWTsig Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2002
    Messages:
    13,947
    Likes Received:
    3,551
    so what you're saying is that we need to be more like the terrorists???

    gotcha!
     
  14. TheFreak

    TheFreak Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 1999
    Messages:
    18,259
    Likes Received:
    3,220
    So wait, I thought Bush had alienated all of our allies, how in the world are they still cooperating? How is this possible?
     
  15. rimbaud

    rimbaud Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 1999
    Messages:
    8,169
    Likes Received:
    676
    Not really true. The French popuation in general likes the US. Many polls have been taken over there, even at the height of the Iraq buildup, and they always had generally favorable views of US citizens and of the physical country. The French population, as a whole, really (really) does not like the current US government. That was/is the reason for the French government's sabre rattling.
     
  16. 111chase111

    111chase111 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2000
    Messages:
    1,660
    Likes Received:
    21
    Of course, the French people also don't really like the French government either so the sable rattling may be to gain points with the voters. Of all the "major" French leaders, Tony Blair (a Bush ally) is the only one who is still politically successful. Chirac and Shroeder have both suffered major political defeats recently. I don't know what that means in the end but its kind of interesting and not what you'd expect based on what you hear.
     
  17. 111chase111

    111chase111 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2000
    Messages:
    1,660
    Likes Received:
    21
    That's possible. But the west has been attacked by Islamic Fundimentalists for a long time. The US was attacked numerous times before the Iraq war. I personally believe that no matter what we do they will find some reason to attack us. Presenting us as a great Satan is how they rally the troops.

    "the Global Islamic Media Group, an al-Qaeda mouthpiece group, titled: “Sheikh Usama’s Message to All the Allied Countries,” reminds the jihadist community that the war upon America and its allies, including “Britain, France, Italy, Canada, Germany, and Australia” is “lawful,” and that attacks upon the Muslim people will be reciprocated with like violence on their enemies."

    Sheikh Usama bin Laden’s Message to All the Allied Countries

    According to this quote France, Canada and Germany are all lawful targets and they have no part of the Iraq war. They even mention Canada! What did Canada ever do to anyone?

    Clearly some of these fundamentalists are at war with the west. I personally believe they are the "new Communism" in that they want to take over the world and force an Islamic theocracy on everyone.

    So, if Canada is a target and Canada did not participate in the Iraq war, how can you say that the Iraq war is the sole motovator for these terrorists?

    With regard to you "oil" comment.... First, oil is certainly a reason to ensure a stable Middle East. The economies of the world will suffer greatly if something happens to the free flow of oil in the world. This is a fact and you can't change it. Try living your life one day with out using something that used oil or depended on it for delivery. You can't. You couldn't wear clothes (transportation, polyester fibers), you couldn't eat (transportation, fertilizers), you couldn't use your computer (plastic)....

    But the US has never "stolen" anyone's oil. People accused Bush I of going to war against Iraq to get cheap oil and it never happened. We never asked for nor have we ever received any kind of cheap oil from Kuwait as a result of that war. Yet tons of people accused the U.S. of just that. Saddam even offered the U.S. cheap oil if we didn't attack. If the U.S. was such an ally with Saddam and cheap oil was all we wanted why didn't we take him up on the offer?

    Because we didn't fight these wars to steal oil or to make connected people rich; we fought the wars to stabalize the Middle East to ensure a cheap and steady supply of oil. We have to. Oil is the lifeblood of all the major nations in the world. Until something better comes along we are stuck fighting wars to ensure nothing happens to the oil supply. And that's not Bush's fault.
     
  18. harumph

    harumph Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2001
    Messages:
    592
    Likes Received:
    0
    A view on this from another country fighting in Iraq & Afghanistan (Australia):

    - Saddam had to go. The man was a tyrant & financially supported Palestinian terrorist. But the justification used to remove him was complete BS. Everyone apart from the White House knew that the link to al quada was very iffy at best, and they, like a little kid, just didn't listen when told something they didn't want to hear. if they said he was a vicious tyrant & tried to bring "crimes against humanity" charges against him as justification, then there wouldn't be the negative global view on the matter.

    - Oil was the justification for Iraq. The offer by Saddam for cheap oil wouldn't have changed a thing, as the US needs STABILITY in its oil supply. This was about removing America's reliance on Saudi Arabia for oil, as they've prooved to be "unreliable" as partners (except for funding GWB Snr) in fighting terrorism, nor stopping the spread of extremests & extremest messages around the world. How many of the 911 hijackers were Saudi...

    - The operations in Afghanistan were supported by almost everyone globally (ie governments & oppositions). It had a valid justification & was seen as a neccessary step for the world. The problem was Bush decided to go after other targets instead of getting the one that was causing the world the most trouble. They cut corners in there; not enough troops, relying on local warlords instead of using coalition troops, and leaving before the job was done. In Aust, public opinion is sharply against the Iraq campaign, yet we are sending a heap of SAS soldiers there in the next month to much public fanfare & goodwill.

    - If they had done the job properly in Afghanistan, then went to Iraq, the job would've been much easier. Less resources in the form of fighters, guidance & morale (gave them a belief that they could fight & not get caught). But they cut corners in Iraq too (Central command says they need 300,000 troops to do the job properly, so GWB & Rumsfeld send 150,000) and it's now a new terrorist training base/testing ground. They made the problem worse.

    - A child is the third best target/victim for terrorists. The top is soldiers, then government officials, then children. While the strategic impact will be less than the other 2, the psychological impact, and headlines generated, is extremely high. They're not called terrorist for nothing...

    my two cents....
     
  19. ROXRAN

    ROXRAN Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2000
    Messages:
    18,081
    Likes Received:
    4,425
    The french have never liked Americans much even before 9/11...Trust me, I worked with a moving populace of hundreds or even thousands of them when I worked at IAH Duty Free so many years ago. They all smell...It's true...

    good post, harumph...I pretty much agree with everything except the last paragraph.
     
  20. ROXRAN

    ROXRAN Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2000
    Messages:
    18,081
    Likes Received:
    4,425
    ...For some reason, they do like Texans, and many think of them separate. (as I recall)
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now