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An Israeli Looks at Israel's Response to Non Violent Protests

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by glynch, Jun 13, 2011.

  1. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    Interesting take on the current situation and an and also an analysis of the additional 5 million Palestinians who live in refugee camps along the borders of Israel and the occupied territories. I think eventually Americans will get tired of supporting a very un American type of religious state and a new country will emerge in the region with equality for all.

    The current Israeli leadership will try hard and very bloodily to force the current non-violent protests back into the suicide bomber type violence they actually feel more tactically comfortable with.

    ...http://original.antiwar.com/avnery/2011/06/12/netanyahu-stupid-like-a-fox/
    The border crossing of the refugees near Majdal Shams caused near-panic in Israel.

    First, there were the usual recriminations. Why was the army not prepared for this event? Who was to blame—Northern Command or Army Intelligence?

    Behind all the excitement was the nightmare that has haunted Israel since 1948: that the 750,000 refugees and their descendants, some 5 million by now, will one day get up and march to the borders of Israel from north, east, and south, breach the fences, and flood the country. This nightmare is the mirror-image of the refugees’ dream.
    During the first years of Israel, this was a waking nightmare. On the day Israel was founded, it had some 650,000 Jewish inhabitants. The return of the refugees would indeed have swamped the young Israeli state. Lately, with more than 6 million Jewish citizens, this fear has receded into the background—but it is always there. Psychologists might say that it represents repressed feelings of guilt in the national psyche.


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    Last week, there was a repeat performance. The Palestinians all around Israel have declared June 5 “Naksa” Day, to commemorate the “Setback” of 1967, when Israel spectacularly defeated the armies of Egypt, Syria, and Jordan, reinforced by elements from the Iraqi and Saudi armies.

    This time, the Israeli army was prepared. The fence was reinforced and an anti-tank ditch dug in front of it. When the demonstrators tried to reach the fence—again near Majdal Shams—they were shot by sharpshooters. Some 22 were killed, and many dozens were wounded. The Palestinians report that people trying to rescue the wounded and retrieve the dead were also shot and killed.

    No doubt this was a deliberate tactic decided upon in advance by the army command after the Naqba Day fiasco and approved by Benjamin Netanyahu and Ehud Barak. As was said quite openly, the Palestinians had to be taught a lesson they would not forget, so as to drive any idea of an unarmed mass action out of their minds.

    It is frighteningly reminiscent of events 10 years ago. After the first Intifada, in which stone-throwing youngsters and children won a moral victory that led to the Oslo agreement, our army conducted exercises in anticipation of a second Intifada. This broke out after the political disaster of Camp David, and the army was ready.

    The new Intifada started with mass demonstrations of unarmed Palestinians. They were met by specially trained sharpshooters. Next to each sharpshooter stood an officer who pointed out the individuals who were to be shot because they looked like ringleaders: “The guy in the red shirt… Now the boy with the blue trousers…”

    The unarmed uprising broke down and was replaced by suicide bombers, roadside bombs, and other “terrorist” acts. With those our army was on familiar ground.

    I suspect very much that we are witnessing much the same thing once more. Again, specially trained sharpshooters are at work, directed by officers.

    ...
    The whole thing is not only murderous, but also incredibly dumb.

    For decades now, practically all talk about peace has centered on the territories occupied in the 1967 war. President Mahmoud Abbas, President Barack Obama, and the Israeli peace movement all talk about the “1967 borders.” When my friends and I started (in 1949) to talk about the two-state solution, we, too, meant these borders. (The “1967 borders” are, in fact, simply the armistice lines agreed upon after the 1948 war.)

    Most people, even in the Israeli peace movement, ignored the refugee problem altogether. They were laboring under the illusion that it had gone away, or would do so after peace had been achieved between Israel and the Palestinian Authority. I always warned my friends that this would not happen—5 million human beings cannot be simply shut out. It is no use to make peace with half the Palestinian people and just ignore the other half. It will not mean “the end of the conflict,” whatever might be stated in a peace agreement.
    But through years of discussions, mostly behind closed doors, a consensus has been reached. Almost all Palestinian leaders have agreed, either explicitly or implicitly, to the formula of “a just and agreed upon solution of the refugee problem”—so that any solution is subject to Israeli approval. I have spoken about this many times with Yasser Arafat, Faisal al-Husseini, and others.

    In practice, this means that a symbolic number of refugees will be allowed back into Israel (the exact number to be fixed in negotiations), with the others to be resettled in the state of Palestine (which must be big and viable enough to make this possible) or receive generous compensation that will allow them to start a new life where they are or elsewhere.


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    To make this complicated and painful solution easier, everyone agreed that it would be best to deal with this matter near the end of the peace negotiations, after mutual trust and a more relaxed atmosphere had been established.

    And here comes our government and tries to solve the problem with sharpshooters—not as the last resort, but as the first. Instead of countering the protesters with effective non-lethal means, they kill people. This will, of course, intensify the protests, mobilize masses of refugees, and put the “refugee problem” squarely on the table, in the center of the table, before negotiations have even started.

    In other words: the conflict moves back from 1967 to 1948. For Hassan Hijazi, the grandson of a refugee from Jaffa, this is a huge achievement.

    Nothing could be more stupid than this course of action by Netanyahu and company.

    Unless, of course, they are doing this consciously, in order to make any peace negotiations impossible.

    http://original.antiwar.com/avnery/2011/06/12/netanyahu-stupid-like-a-fox/
     
    #1 glynch, Jun 13, 2011
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2011
    1 person likes this.
  2. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    Why do you hate Israel so much?
     
  3. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    Maybe the same reason people hated apartheid under S. Africa?
     
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  4. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    Great, the two leftist Israel haters going through their same old routine again.
     
  5. Hydhypedplaya

    Hydhypedplaya Member

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    Why do you love Israel so much?
     
  6. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    vs.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]
     
  7. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    First of all I'm not a hater of Israel. I believe Israel should be a Jewish state and live in peace. I hate Israel's policies.

    Do you think their apartheid system is good?
     
  8. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    I don't hate Israel, but I find it sickening that they got away with killing non-violent protesters in the First Intifada, and beating children.

     
  9. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    according to ATW if you point out anything bad about Israel you hate it. Any mention of what Israel does wrong is tantamount to hatred of it as a nation.

    It's odd that any criticism of Israeli policies is seen that way by some people.
     
  10. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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  11. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    or you can go for hot Russian/American/German woman troops, statistically a 89.9% chance less of them having beaten a child or 82.4% killing a non-violent protester
     
  12. Qball

    Qball Contributing Member

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    so you start off with...

    then go on to talk about routine...

    potmeetkettle.jpg for realz
     
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  13. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    We barely have any female soldiers in Germany. And I have seen many female American soldiers...cough cough. Not sure about Russians.
     
  14. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    why do you hate 1.57 billion people so much:confused:
     
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  15. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    [​IMG]
     
  16. Rumblemintz

    Rumblemintz Member

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    I Love Lamp.
     
  17. Steve_Francis_rules

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    I'm surprised he's stuck to just calling you an Israel-hater so far, instead of jumping immediately to anti-Semite or Jew-hater.
     
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  18. AMS

    AMS Contributing Member

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    It's nice to know you are still an idiot.
     
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  19. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    I have no problem with an armed response to an invasion. If huge masses of hostile Mexicans or Canadians, even unarmed, tried to advance on the United States' border, I would hope the military would repel them. Hell, I wish the border patrol would do a better job repelling those smaller groups that cross now.
     
  20. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    they're invading and taking our mowing and bus boy jobs. open fire
     
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