The beauty of Lidge is that we don't have to trade him. He's our closer for 2007 unless we get a great offer for him - it's a win-win for us. He's clearly gotten his mechanics back on track. So if we do trade him, it will be for something of value - if that's not an option, then we have our closer for next year set. One complicating factor here is that Gagne is also on the market, so that gives buyers at least a little flexibility. Gagne needs to be moved more than Lidge does, as I think he's a free agent after this year anyway.
i completely agree with all of you all that he is one of the better closers in the league and he does have value. some things might have been taken out of context but there were several reasons for lidges downfalls. one could have been he was tipping his pitches the others could have been mechanical. he is back and he is a better closer than wheeler will ever be. like i said before i dont think we should trade lidge cause other teams might not give us what he is worth that is my only argument based on certain stats. you all are right that lidge is a good closer. that was taken out of context. my apologies
exactly what i was trying to say. if we dont get fair value for him we should not trade him cause it is not worth it. i agree with you if we dont get a fair offer then no deal cause he is still valuable to us regardless of past history
just heard on 610 that the mets are aggressively making a pitch for Roy O right now, doubt it will happen since they only are dangling milledge and some others. not enough for Roy
guys, he's not worth it - ignore him. he has no idea what he's talking about: he has no idea the astros traded their closer in june 2004 for carlos beltran, giving the heretofore 8th inning virtuoso a chance to close, a role he immediately thrived in; he has no idea lidge may very well have been the most valuable player in both of our runs at the postseason in '04 and '05; he has no idea how very nearly unhittably dominant lidge was for nearly two consecutive postseasons; he has no idea how to judge a player beyond the most arcane statistical measures (like wins, saves and batting average). lastly, he has no idea that lidge would be the most sought-after commodity on the market if we were made available and would net us at least two very good prospects in return.
hey look i agree with you i dont know how many times i got to say this but whatever bash me all ya want cause i dont really care. my point is trading lidge is not the answer because i dont think we will get what we can for what he is worth, thats it. my points bout his past 2 years is the outlook perceived by other teams and the reasons why they may not give us top prospects for him thats all. i would rather have lidge closing for the astros than any other player but i wont give him up for free. your acting like i said to trade the guy for nothing, i didnt. thats all
JYD, I will not believe they are all mechanical until Lidge does it consistently again as the closer. To put all his struggles down to mechanicals is naive IMO. And aren't getting the mechanics right, partly mental? DD
Who are you, Howie What's-His-Name? I disagree with this--I believe teams aren't nearly so myopic as the average fan. They've scouted him; they see the improved mechanics; they see the nice command of his strong pitches and the life on his slider; they know about the gaudy ERA and WHIP numbers he's put up of late. They *also* know he's not a FA after this season. Lidge, in other words, would net a better return than *anyone* on this roster not names Roy Oswalt or Lance Berkman. Kudos for the mea culpa, btw. Few online folks are willing to do that.
teams are smarter than you - they'll look beyond something as arbitrary as saves to gague his value. no, i'm acting like i would if anyone else posted the things you did about lidge. he's the astros' elite commodity as the deadline approaches and if he's dealt, and purpura doesn't fall into another coma prior to, they'll be able to get a very nice ROI.
But he was sucking hard no matter what inning he threw in. Remember the 6th-or-7th-inning implosion early this year?
I never said his problems were strictly mechanical, just that they were mechanical originally (as proven by his struggles before the shot)...and frustrations over those problems hurt him mentally over time. And certainly the shot had some effect on his psyche...I just hate it when people point to that as the reason for all his problems.
Let's reiterate this point from the Allyson Footer article: I understand that Ensberg and Jason Lane have no trade value, but what about Mike Lamb, Loretta and Brad Lidge? Any chance we see any of the three or any combination including those three be traded before the deadline? -- Brent P., Coldspring I think we all need to step back and look at this in realistic terms. Lamb, Loretta and Jason Jennings are all free agents after the season. That means the team that trades for them risks losing them after the season is over. They're called rent-a-players. What do you think the Astros are going to get in return? A 30-homer defensively sound 25-year-old third baseman? A 220-inning No. 2 starter with three years of arbitration eligibility ahead of him? A Pudge-like catcher with a cannon arm? No, no and no. You're just not going to get a lot for these guys. They're solid players, yes. And Jennings certainly could bolster a contending team's pitching staff, and for him, perhaps you can get a nice prospect. But interested clubs aren't going to give up much to get any three. I think there's a notion that if the Astros traded those three for prospects, they could replenish their farm system with top tier talent guaranteed to reach the big leagues. That's simply not realistic. Lidge would be the big trading chip. But the Astros are very, very hesitant to deal him. Despite his past struggles, he's still got the stuff of a premier closer and he certainly proved that he can still handle the job. But also, if they trade Lidge, who's going to close? They have no other options. Dan Wheeler does not appear to be the answer, nor does Chad Qualls, and no one in the Minor League system would be ready for the job this year or next. Pitching is expensive these days. If they trade Lidge, they'll have to get a closer through a trade or the free agent market. Seems kind of counterproductive, doesn't it? Why not just keep Lidge? We do have trading chips, but let's not overvalue these guys...and lets also take into account that if we trade away Lidge, then we're gonna have to find another closer (Wheeler diddn't exactly thrive in that role). So we wouldn't exactly be making progress in building a better team. I think our only real trading chips are the guys that are FA after this season, as we still would have a shot of signing them in the offseason regardless...that is if you are going to go the reloading route...which I think is the smarter way to go...no sense in rebuilding the team when you got a solid core of Oswalt, Lee, Berkman, Pence, Everett, Burke (maybe)...lets find at least two out of catcher, 3b and RF, make a few upgrades to the starting rotation and bring in some fresh faces to the pen to go around Lidge.
Footer really did do a nice job in that article. The only problem is that it's leaving us sitting here saying: a) we're not good this year b) therefore, we should improve the future instead of concentrating on now c) but, nothing we have can net any significant future returns d) so we should hope that Jennings signs on the cheap, Burke improves, the farm system helps us, and we can find some decent free agents? Didn't we just go through that process? Not that I'm advocating dealing Lidge. But the article seems so pessimistic. We can't go anywhere now, but we can't help ourselves for later either.
Remember that we get draft pick allocations for free agents that sign for someone else. We don't necessarily lose out by not trading them.
Only if the organization offers arbitration to them, which the Astros just haven't done of late. Huff, Kent, Pettitte, and Clemens all left for *nothing*.
Lidge has not thrived as closer since 2005. The Astros do not have a closer at this point in time. The last time, that Lidge thrived, was in the setup role this year. But he makes way too much money for that role. Other teams in playoff chases may be willing to overpay for Lidge in hopes that he can translate his 8th inning success back into 9th inning success. If they do, the Astros should relieve them of their top AAA prospects.
