Adios Amare (espn)

RedRowdy111 · Feb 3, 2010

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insi...?columnist=hollinger_john&page=PERDiem-100203

Can a ESPN insider post this article on potential Amare trade suitors. I have a feeling that guys like Amare, Boozer, and Bosh being available (and being expiring contracts) could get in the way of us trading Mcgrady. I would just like to see what kind of deals the Suns could do.

Thanks in advance.

kaleidosky · Feb 3, 2010

Possible destinations for Stoudemire
By John Hollinger

As the Feb. 18 trade deadline nears, it appears the epicenter of Rumorville has shifted. In contrast to a few weeks ago, when everybody viewed Washington as the first trade domino, now it appears that the resolution of Amare Stoudemire's status in Phoenix is the more likely tipping point for trade season.

Don't get me wrong -- the Wizards remain very active in trade discussions and plenty of teams covet Antawn Jamison, Caron Butler and Brendan Haywood.

But Stoudemire is the highest-profile player to hit the trade market thus far. Multiple league sources have informed me that they expect him to be traded before the deadline, as owner Robert Sarver looks to further cut money on a team that, at best, seems a likely first-round playoff casualty.

Here's how the money works on Phoenix's end: Stoudemire can opt out of his contract over the summer and become an unrestricted free agent. He has talked openly about pursuing that option in order to pursue a maximum contract in a market where there are few other high-profile big men available.

Conversely, Stoudemire can decline the option and collect $17.6 million next season. From what I'm hearing, that's the alternative that has the Suns freaked out. Because Phoenix wants to rebuild before Steve Nash's magical powers expire, Stoudemire's status as a one-year rental for 2010-11 would push that process back another 12 months.

The fact that Stoudemire isn't worth $17 million in his present form complicates any plans for teams that want to trade for him. If he opts in, the Suns would not only brush up against the luxury tax line, but they would also have great difficulty adding younger players and, most likely, would lose center Channing Frye. (On a completely unrelated side note, calling Frye "the first center in the 3-point contest" would make a bit more sense if his teammate weren't the starting center in the All-Star Game.)

All of the above would make trading Stoudemire rather cut-and-dried, except for one little problem: coming up with a deal that works. Virtually every potential suitor has at least one major issue that would complicate any acquisition for Stoudemire.

Let's run through the candidates and consider the possibilities:

New Jersey: In terms of trade pieces, this one is the most straightforward option. The Nets can offer the Suns a talented young player (Courtney Lee) and a heap of cap relief by throwing expiring contracts into the deal and agreeing to take back Leandro Barbosa (owed $6.6 million next season) along with Stoudemire. New Jersey can throw several assortments of expiring deals into such a trade, but the ones that make the most sense are for Bobby Simmons and Tony Battie.

Such an arrangement would put the Suns about $10 million under the cap and save them approximately $3.5 million in luxury tax payments this season. Because Phoenix is such an alluring destination for free agents, the deal would position the Suns to quickly snap out of the doldrums. They also might be able to squeeze Dallas' first-round pick out of the Nets (owed from the Jason Kidd trade) if they negotiate hard enough.

Here's the problem, though: Stoudemire would have to agree to join one of the league's most depressing situations. The Nets are hopeless right now and won't move to Brooklyn for at least two more years. While new owner Mikhail Prokhorov can take over in March if approved by the league, even that remains uncertain: I've been told that the acquisition isn't a 100 percent done deal yet.

One way to make this deal happen would be an "extend-and-trade," in which Stoudemire agreed in advance to an extension with Phoenix at some reasonable number (i.e., less than he's making now). This isn't unprecedented -- Boston and Minnesota did it in the Kevin Garnett trade -- but it would require a lot of haggling. It also would require Stoudemire to want to play in The Swamp (or, next season perhaps, in Newark), and right now that seems a long shot.

Miami: I've heard this is Stoudemire's preferred landing spot since he hails from Florida and would look forward to playing with Dwyane Wade.

Multiple problems complicate any potential deal, however. First, there's the money. Both teams are over the luxury tax and both are trying to get under it; you can't really do a deal when both teams are trying to cut money.

Setting that aside, other complications arise. From the Heat's perspective, they'd basically be making Stoudemire their free-agent pickup for 2010. But can't the Heat do better this summer in a stacked free-agent class that includes the likes of LeBron James, Chris Bosh, Joe Johnson, David Lee, Carlos Boozer and Rudy Gay?

Additionally, the most plausible deal is one that would swap Stoudemire and Barbosa for Jermaine O'Neal -- but would that make Miami any better? The Heat already have one poor frontcourt defender in Michael Beasley; pairing him with Stoudemire would eviscerate their interior defense.

All told, this one has enough holes in it that I doubt it comes to fruition.

San Antonio: I know the Spurs are getting desperate, but desperate enough to try this? I don't think so.

If Stoudemire were to opt in for next season, they'd be hosed: The normally financially savvy, small-market Spurs would go over the luxury-tax bar for a team that has only seven players under contract and looks decidedly long in the tooth.

Moreover, acquiring Stoudemire would cost the Spurs Manu Ginobili, their only reliable shot-creator on the wings, and the Spurs have precious little in the form of young players to include as a sweetener. This one never had legs and there are good reasons why.

Cleveland: The biggest problem with any Cleveland scenario is that it would leave the Cavs a body or two short in the frontcourt for a month. The Cavs would send Zydrunas Ilgauskas and J.J. Hickson to Phoenix for STAT, most likely with the understanding that the Suns would immediately waive Ilgauskas so that he could return to the Cavs after the mandatory 30-day waiting period.

The one nice thing about this deal is that it's one of the few that wouldn't necessarily require negotiating an extension beforehand. Because of their demonstrated willingness to spend, the Cavs might be more comfortable than most with the idea of Stoudemire playing as a rental, and either (A) trying to re-sign or sign-and-trade him over the summer or (B) having him play out next season for $17 million before doing the same.

It's also a bit of a risk for a Cleveland team that isn't exactly desperate. Stoudemire struggled when paired with Shaq a season ago, and his opportunities would further shrivel in a LeBron James-dominated offense in Cleveland. Meanwhile, a Stoudemire-Shaq frontcourt would be subject to the same nightly shreddings on defense the Suns suffered a season ago in Phoenix. While Stoudemire's offensive ability makes this swap a slam dunk on paper, the on-court chemistry seems less enticing.

Golden State: The Warriors were hot on Stoudemire's trail on draft day, but they've apparently cooled to him since then. Not only did Stoudemire frown on moving to Oakland, but it seems that Golden State has shifted direction in an attempt to save money while owner Chris Cohan considers selling the team to Oracle founder Larry Ellison.

If the Warriors ever get serious about it, however, they can put together a better offer than almost any other team. The Warriors can combine expiring contracts (Raja Bell, Speedy Claxton) with young talent (take your pick: Stephen Curry, Kelenna Azubuike, Andris Biedrins, Anthony Morrow, Anthony Randolph) to create an alluring package, and Stoudemire would almost certainty thrive in the Warriors' up-tempo, defense-optional style.

None of that, however, happens without an offer, and right now the Warriors don't appear to be in the market.

Detroit: Nobody is quite sure if the Pistons are coming or going these days, but one option to think about is a trade of Charlie Villanueva for Stoudemire. That would get the Suns a younger player at a more reasonable salary and pave the way for the rebuilding process, and the Pistons could line the deal with expiring contracts (Chris Wilcox and Kwame Brown) to make the salary-cap math work. Such a deal would give Phoenix $10 million of additional wiggle room around the luxury tax and, of course, a replacement for Stoudemire.

From Detroit's perspective, they'd be taking a risk by committing to Stoudemire and adding another long-term contract to a fairly large stable of them. Richard Hamilton, Ben Gordon, and Jason Maxiell all have at least two years left after this one at big numbers, and Rodney Stuckey is likely to join them because the Pistons can extend him this summer. While there isn't any threat that the Pistons could become a tax team, it would be a heavy salary structure for a club that's losing big and is in the process of changing owners.

For that reason the odds tilt heavily against such a deal to take place, but from the Phoenix perspective, it would be one of the more intriguing options.

Chicago: We haven't heard much about Chicago as having interest in Stoudemire, and the Bulls have become infamous for their inability to pull the trigger on major moves. Nonetheless, this might be the most appealing destination for both Stoudemire and the Suns.

The Bulls can put together a strong deal if they have the interest, but as with Miami above, the biggest hurdle is that they'd have to be committed to making Stoudemire their free-agent pickup. But since Chicago isn't slated to have max cap space anyway -- at the moment, at least -- the opportunity cost isn't nearly as great.

Additionally, Chicago can provide Phoenix both young players and cap relief. A deal of Jerome James, Tyrus Thomas, Taj Gibson and Jannero Pargo for Stoudemire and Jason Collins would save the Suns more than $3 million in luxury tax and put them well south of next season's tax line, while allowing them to rebuild with two defensive-minded frontcourt players in Gibson and Thomas. Throw Brad Miller into the deal instead of James, and the Suns also could drop Barbosa on Chicago and further cut costs.

More importantly, Chicago is a good fit for Stoudemire. Paired with a strong defensive center in Joakim Noah, his own defensive shortcomings would be less exposed and he wouldn't find the low block occupied. Along with Derrick Rose and Luol Deng, Stoudemire would make the Bulls an athletic, up-tempo outfit with three relatively young pillars to build around.
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J.R. · Feb 3, 2010

Misleading title! I thought he got traded.

RedRowdy111 · Feb 3, 2010

Can you also post this article by Chad Ford -Trade Buzz: Who's most likely to deal?

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insi...ry?columnist=ford_chad&page=TradeWatch-100129

Rep coming your way. Thanks so much!!!

REEKO_HTOWN · Feb 3, 2010

He's got Overpaid Underachiever written all over him.

Good thing CD isn't here anymore; He would have traded 2 years picks for him already.

kaleidosky · Feb 3, 2010

np man, i know how much i wanted to read articles before i had insider.. willing to do this once in a while

Trade Buzz: Who's most likely to deal?
By Chad Ford

Over the past couple of weeks, we've looked at more than 30 players who could be traded before the Feb. 18 trade deadline.

For players like Phoenix Suns forward Amare Stoudemire, the trade talk continues to heat up. For others, like Portland Trail Blazers point guard Andre Miller, the talk has died down; in Miller's case, GM Kevin Pritchard declared recently that the team doesn't want to trade him.

This week we adjust our gaze to another question: Which teams are most likely to make a deal before the deadline?

Some teams are looking for the missing piece. Others are throwing in the towel and looking to rebuild. And for a few others, the trade deadline is an opportunity to save some serious cash.

Here's a look at the 10 teams most likely to deal:

The contenders
One piece away from a championship?

Cleveland Cavaliers
The Cavs are sporting the best record in the league and have swept the Western Conference favorites, the Lakers, 2-0. But after last year's playoff collapse, you can be sure GM Danny Ferry will take every precaution. And Cleveland has another big reason to make a deal: LeBron James can be a free agent this summer, and the Cavs want to do everything in their power to persuade him to stay long term.

The Cavs have some good assets, including Zydrunas Ilgauskas and Shaquille O'Neal, whose contracts are expiring, and the semi-retired Wally Szczerbiak, a sign-and-trade candidate. They also have a young player, J.J. Hickson, in whom some teams have shown interest. Plus, the Cavs would be willing to give up this year's first-round pick.

But those assets are of value primarily to teams trying to clear cap room. Hickson and a late first-round pick alone won't net a star.

As trade targets, the Cavs have been concentrating mostly on 4s who can spread the floor. The Wizards' Antawn Jamison and the Pacers' Troy Murphy are reportedly at the top of their list. While both the Wizards and Pacers have some financial reasons to make a deal with Cleveland, both teams are seeing whether they can get something more from another team.

Los Angeles Lakers
The Lakers, like the Cavs, are perched atop their conference at the moment, and they are favored to win a second straight NBA title. So why would they mess with a good thing?

There is a growing fear in L.A. that the point guard position has become a real problem. Starter Derek Fisher looks as though he's run out of gas, and reserve Jordan Farmar, while decent, is hardly world-class. If the Lakers can acquire even an average point guard, they may have to do it.

They, too, have assets for a team that needs to save money. Both Fisher and Adam Morrison come off the books this summer, for a total of more than $10 million in expiring contracts.

The three big names mentioned in connection to Los Angeles have been Devin Harris, Andre Miller and Kirk Hinrich. The Nets want more than expiring contracts for Harris, so I think they're out. The Blazers aren't eager to move Miller, especially down the coast to a Western Conference rival. That leaves the Bulls, who want to get further under the salary cap to make a run at two free agents this summer. Hinrich has been solid in a backup role for the Bulls, but he's expendable. While the Lakers would have to commit to the remainder of Hinrich's contract, it's a deal that makes a lot of sense for both sides.

Orlando Magic
The Magic were a preseason pick of many, including me, to make it to the Eastern Conference finals and perhaps beyond. Vince Carter was supposed to be an upgrade over Hedo Turkoglu. The addition of Brandon Bass and Ryan Anderson was supposed to give them depth inside. And a healthy Jameer Nelson was going to put them over the top.

It hasn't happened yet. The Magic have been shaky, playing roughly .500 ball for the past couple of months. Several GMs have told ESPN that the Magic have been aggressive in their efforts to shake up the roster and regain their swagger.

They have a number of assets. They could find takers for several of their reserve bigs, including Marcin Gortat and Bass. Rashard Lewis would also garner interest if he were available. And while they would be interested in moving Carter, sources around the league say that the market for VC is lukewarm at best.

Dallas Mavericks
Mavs owner Mark Cuban has always broken the bank to put a quality team on the floor. This year's Mavs, for instance, have the third-best record in the West and the league's second-highest payroll.

So, despite what he's already spending, Cuban will try to add another piece to put them over the top. Jason Kidd, Dirk Nowitzki and Jason Terry aren't getting younger. The Mavs need to win now.

The team has a number of unusual and intriguing assets. Josh Howard is a valuable player, and his contract isn't guaranteed for next season. Likewise, a team can trade for starting center Erick Dampier and decide whether to pay him in 2010-11. Between Howard and Dampier, any team (Mavs included) could get about $24 million off the books for next season.

But the Mavs don't have the kind of young talent or draft picks normally needed to sweeten such trades. Because of the Kidd trade, the Nets own the Mavericks' first-round pick this year. Therefore, given NBA rules, the next first-round pick they can trade is their 2012 pick, which doesn't have much value now.

What do the Mavs want? According to the rumblings out there, they are looking for an athletic wing like Philly's Andre Iguodala or the Kings' Kevin Martin. Or they'll save their assets to make a move this summer.

Playing the lottery
Looking to next season

Washington Wizards
The Wizards as we knew them appear to be history. Before the season, many of us had them pegged as a potential playoff team. But all of that was on the assumption that the team would have Gilbert Arenas for the season. Now that Arenas has been suspended for the rest of the season and with his future appearing very shaky, the word is that Washington is contemplating a fire sale.

The Wizards will explore the market for Arenas, of course, but, with four more seasons remaining on a huge contract, he's going to be very difficult to move.

And we've all heard the rampant trade talk about Jamison, Caron Butler and Brendan Haywood, whose contract is expiring. Basically no one is safe on the roster at the moment.

Right now, it's not clear exactly how the Wizards want to play this. Will they insist on getting talent back for players like Jamison and Butler, or are they willing to settle for immediate cap relief? If the latter, the chances that the Wizards are active between now and Feb. 18 are very, very high.

Indiana Pacers
The Pacers thought that if everyone stayed healthy this season, they might have a shot at the playoffs. But the team has been a disappointment. While injuries have played a major part in their struggles, there are other problems. T.J. Ford has been awful, second-year guard Brandon Rush has struggled, and Mike Dunleavy has been slow to return to form.

With so many teams interested in both Murphy and big man Jeff Foster, it looks as though the Pacers are primed to make a move that could set them back in the short term and help in the long term.

The question is, what do Pacers execs Larry Bird and David Morway want in return? If they want cap space, there are plenty of willing suitors. If they want more -- and that would be understandable given their dearth of talent -- it may be harder to find the perfect combination.

Whatever they choose, the Pacers' best play appears to be forgetting about this season and looking to the future, even if it means more losses now. The draft might be their quickest route to getting an elite talent, such as John Wall or another high lottery pick, to play alongside Danny Granger.

Detroit Pistons
After Detroit's disappointing 2008-09 season, Pistons GM Joe Dumars knew that the days of his team making the Eastern Conference finals every year were over. But he didn't expect this.

The Pistons, fresh off spending a boatload of money this summer on Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva, have been awful. Injuries have played a significant role, but the Pistons' pain goes deeper.

Detroit, known for its gritty defense for most of the past three decades, has become a team interested more in outscoring teams than in stopping them. The talent is also unbalanced, with a loaded backcourt and a desperate need for big men who can guard elite bigs and command a double-team in the post.

Moving Richard Hamilton would be ideal, but there's probably no way the Pistons can trade his contract right now, especially with Hamilton still trying to get back to full strength. So Tayshaun Prince has become the primary bait. But I'm willing to bet everyone but Rodney Stuckey is available -- and even Stuckey might be had at the right price.

Dumars will be patient as his team returns to health, but ultimately he wants to get the team back into championship contention. His current roster appears to have a ceiling no higher than fifth-best in the East. So I think Dumars will do what it takes to put a stop to the slide.

The tax man cometh
A penny saved is more than a penny earned

Utah Jazz
Jazz GM Kevin O'Connor continues to insist that the Jazz are interested in making only basketball moves, not cap-related moves. Still, the Jazz could save millions of dollars by moving Carlos Boozer (or another highly paid player) and getting under the luxury-tax line.

While the Jazz have made cost-saving moves in the past, O'Connor seems to have more swagger this year. But will things change as we get closer to the trade deadline? Knowing O'Connor, I doubt it. Ultimately, though, that might be ownership's decision.

Philadelphia 76ers
It sounds as if the Sixers are very motivated to make a deal that gives them salary relief right now. They've been dangling Iguodala, once the cornerstone of the franchise, to any team willing to take Samuel Dalembert, too.

Cleveland, Dallas and Houston have been mentioned as possible suitors. While Iguodala might be a little overpaid (and Dalembert is way overpaid), both players could help a team. Given that, I have to believe Philadelphia is going to find a way to make this happen.

Golden State Warriors
The Warriors have been stiff-arming all trade rumors and declaring that they like the young guys they have and just want to be patient and let them develop together.

At the same time, general manager Larry Riley recently said, "We're in a situation where we need to look very strongly at change." And the winds might be shifting for another reason: If owner Chris Cohan is interested in selling the team, as reports have suggested, then a salary dump becomes more likely.

That may be why Monta Ellis and Corey Maggette, despite having strong seasons, are appearing more and more in trade talk. And if names like Anthony Randolph and Stephen Curry start coming up in trade discussions, you'll know that the Warriors are contemplating big changes.
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Shaud · Feb 3, 2010

I thought he was traded or something.

RedRowdy111 · Feb 3, 2010

Shaud said:

I thought he was traded or something.
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Thats Espn's article name, not mine, lol.

CaptainRox · Feb 3, 2010

I thought he was traded too. ( sorta hoping to the Rox.. now i can still hope)

Nice Rollin · Feb 3, 2010

REEKO_HTOWN said:

He's got Overpaid Underachiever written all over him.

Good thing CD isn't here anymore; He would have traded 2 years picks for him already.
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preeeeeeeety sure he'd have a ring if the suns didnt get cheated twice.

XBLRocketman111 · Feb 3, 2010

Only mention in the article is philly and it doesn't seem likely

mikol13 · Feb 3, 2010

REEKO_HTOWN said:

He's got Overpaid Underachiever written all over him.

Good thing CD isn't here anymore; He would have traded 2 years picks for him already.
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Totally agree with the overpaid Underachiever part. Why people are so high on this guy is beyond me. He has had some good games of late but I just don't think he is as good as before the injuries. He plays no D with the exception of maybe a couple of weakside blocks. IMO he is far from a max player. Is he skilled? Yes. Is he athletic? Yes. Should he be better on both sides of the ball and improved more over the years? Yes and he hasn't

REEKO_HTOWN · Feb 3, 2010

Nice Rollin said:

preeeeeeeety sure he'd have a ring if the suns didnt get cheated twice.
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All that credit would go to Superman here.

XBLRocketman111 · Feb 3, 2010

REEKO_HTOWN said:

All that credit would go to Superman here.

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That picture is sooo gay!!! +1 for you

RedRowdy111 · Feb 3, 2010

Orlando Magic
The Magic were a preseason pick of many, including me, to make it to the Eastern Conference finals and perhaps beyond. Vince Carter was supposed to be an upgrade over Hedo Turkoglu. The addition of Brandon Bass and Ryan Anderson was supposed to give them depth inside. And a healthy Jameer Nelson was going to put them over the top.

It hasn't happened yet. The Magic have been shaky, playing roughly .500 ball for the past couple of months. Several GMs have told ESPN that the Magic have been aggressive in their efforts to shake up the roster and regain their swagger.

They have a number of assets. They could find takers for several of their reserve bigs, including Marcin Gortat and Bass. Rashard Lewis would also garner interest if he were available. And while they would be interested in moving Carter, sources around the league say that the market for VC is lukewarm at best.

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---
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__ Im going with Orlando as a dark horse for a Mcgrady trade. Its known we were after him last season after Mcgrady nixed the trade. With Carter not playing as well this season his stock Im sure has dropped a bit, and if we hae a struggle finding a great deal for Mcgrady, this could be a back-up plan. Also, Morey was at Gortats door the 1st day of free agency. Hmmmm. I'm not a huge supporter of this deal, but I think it could be likely, as Morey plays his cards close. Orlando, could use Mcgradys contract to sign a big name in the free agent market this summer. Being a contender and the opportunity to play next to Dwight Howard, could draw a top guy in FA, and give the Magic a chance at the trophy for the next 5 years+. Interesting scenerio here.

J.R. · Feb 3, 2010

No thanks to Carter - do not want, and don't really care for Gortat.

plutoblue11 · Feb 3, 2010

RedRowdy111 said:

Orlando Magic
The Magic were a preseason pick of many, including me, to make it to the Eastern Conference finals and perhaps beyond. Vince Carter was supposed to be an upgrade over Hedo Turkoglu. The addition of Brandon Bass and Ryan Anderson was supposed to give them depth inside. And a healthy Jameer Nelson was going to put them over the top.

It hasn't happened yet. The Magic have been shaky, playing roughly .500 ball for the past couple of months. Several GMs have told ESPN that the Magic have been aggressive in their efforts to shake up the roster and regain their swagger.

They have a number of assets. They could find takers for several of their reserve bigs, including Marcin Gortat and Bass. Rashard Lewis would also garner interest if he were available. And while they would be interested in moving Carter, sources around the league say that the market for VC is lukewarm at best.

-
---
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__ Im going with Orlando as a dark horse for a Mcgrady trade. Its known we were after him last season after Mcgrady nixed the trade. With Carter not playing as well this season his stock Im sure has dropped a bit, and if we hae a struggle finding a great deal for Mcgrady, this could be a back-up plan. Also, Morey was at Gortats door the 1st day of free agency. Hmmmm. I'm not a huge supporter of this deal, but I think it could be likely, as Morey plays his cards close. Orlando, could use Mcgradys contract to sign a big name in the free agent market this summer. Being a contender and the opportunity to play next to Dwight Howard, could draw a top guy in FA, and give the Magic a chance at the trophy for the next 5 years+. Interesting scenerio here.
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Orlando has the most assets to get a fair deal for Amar'e on both sides, so does Philadelphia.

I would say trading for Amar'e might be more appeasing to some teams than T-Mac's expiring deal.

CaptainRox · Feb 3, 2010

I especially dont want Iggy to go to Dallas. To me the Rox enemies are the Jazz holes then the Mavs

J.R. · Feb 3, 2010

Iggy will end up in one of 3 places imo: Suns, Mavericks, Cavs

RedRowdy111 · Feb 3, 2010

hsf09 said:

No thanks to Carter - do not want, and don't really care for Gortat.
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I understand, but thinking outside of the box, it is a possibility. If all else fails, and teams (Philly, Wash) baulk at a Mcgrady trade, it might be the best we can do.

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