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[ABC]Government Illegally Intercepting ALL Internet Traffic

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Ottomaton, Nov 10, 2007.

  1. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Contributing Member
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    This isn't entirely a new story, but reading about this guy's testimony severely pissed me off. Of all Bush's supposed transgressions, this is the most egregious and illegal. I seriously believe that he deserves to go for a vacation at a federal penitentiary when he leaves office because of this. Of course it will never happen because congress will fear the same thing could happen to them.

    And in the grand tradition of Richard Nixon, the White House is trying to use the courts and national security claims to avoid accountability.

    source

    [rquoter]
    Big Brother Spying on Americans' Internet Data?
    AT&T Whistleblower Describes Secret Room That Sends Internet Data to Government


    It would be difficult to say whose e-mail, text messages or Internet phone calls the government is monitoring at any given time, but according to a former AT&T employee, the government has warrantless access to a great deal of Internet traffic should they care to take a peek.

    As information is traded between users it flows also into a locked, secret room on the sixth floor of AT&T's San Francisco offices and other rooms around the country -- where the U.S. government can sift through and find the information it wants, former AT&T employee Mark Klein alleged Wednesday at a press conference on Capitol Hill.

    "An exact copy of all Internet traffic that flowed through critical AT&T cables -- e-mails, documents, pictures, Web browsing, voice-over-Internet phone conversations, everything -- was being diverted to equipment inside the secret room," he said.

    Klein, who worked for more than 20 years as a technician at AT&T, said that the highly secretive electronics-focused National Security Agency began working with telecom companies to gain wholesale access to vast amounts of data traveling over the Internet.

    Whistleblower: AT&T Allows U.S. to Spy on Internet Data

    Klein was on Capitol Hill Wednesday attempting to convince lawmakers not to give a blanket, retroactive immunity to telecom companies for their secret cooperation with the government.

    He said that as an AT&T technician overseeing Internet operations in San Francisco, he helped maintain optical splitters that diverted data en route to and from AT&T customers.

    One day he found that the splitters were hard-wired into a secret room on the sixth floor.

    Klein said only a management-level employee with NSA security clearance was allowed inside, but documents he obtained form AT&T showed that highly sophisticated data mining equipment was kept there.

    Conversations he had with other technicians and the AT&T documents led Klein to believe there are 15 to 20 such sites nationwide, including in Seattle, Los Angeles, San Jose, San Diego and Atlanta, he said.

    AT&T and government lawyers have argued the documents Klein took are proprietary and have tried, as part of a class action filed by the Electronic Frontier Foundation in January 2006, to reclaim them. In doing so AT&T also verified their authenticity, EFF attorneys argued today.


    AT&T spokesperson Susan Bean responded to inquiries about the lawsuit and the allegations by Klein in an e-mail statement today: "AT&T is fully committed to protecting our customers' privacy. We do not comment on matters of national security."

    A federal judge dismissed claims by government lawyers, who are arguing the case instead of AT&T because of national security implications, that the company is immune to lawsuit for the access to data they provided to the government. An appeal of that order is pending and has temporarily halted the lawsuit.

    But Congress is considering a proposal to grant retroactive, blanket immunity for telecom companies for their cooperation with the government as part of a bill that would revamp the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act and give government spy agencies more latitude in their information gathering.


    The House of Representatives has so far rejected the immunity, but the Senate Intelligence Committee approved a bill last month that would allow it. The Senate Judiciary Committee is set to consider that bill at a meeting Thursday.

    Key Democrats and Republicans on the Senate Judiciary Committee have expressed concern with any sort of immunity, but not dismissed it.

    Pennsylvania Sen. Arlen Specter, the ranking Republican on the committee, has suggested that Congress consider indemnifying telecom companies against damages.

    "At least that would allow the lawsuit to go forward," EFF attorney Kevin Bankston said today.

    President Bush has said he will veto any bill that does not include the immunity for telecom companies.

    When the New York Times reported in late 2005 on the warrantless domestic wiretapping program run by the NSA, Klein, who had recently retired from AT&T, said he became "frustrated."

    'Wholesale, Dragnet Surveillance'

    "Its not the way a warrant should work that you take everything and sift away what you don't want," Klein said.

    "Wiretapping in the past has always been a retail operation as opposed to a wholesale one. The government has had to determine who they want to target before they can target them," Bankston said.

    In May 2006, Bush defended the NSA's warrantless programs by saying the government was not mining for data and only targeting foreign terrorists and al Qaeda operatives.

    "First, our international activities strictly target al Qaeda and their known affiliates. Al Qaeda is our enemy, and we want to know their plans. Second, the government does not listen to domestic phone calls without court approval," he said.

    "Third, the intelligence activities I authorized are lawful and have been briefed to appropriate members of Congress, both Republican and Democrat. Fourth, the privacy of ordinary Americans is fiercely protected in all our activities. We're not mining or trolling through the personal lives of millions of innocent Americans. Our efforts are focused on links to al Qaeda and their known affiliates. So far we've been very successful in preventing another attack on our soil," he said.

    But Brian Reid, a former Stanford electrical engineering professor who appeared with Klein, said the NSA would logically collect phone and Internet data simultaneously because of the way fiber optic cables are intertwined.

    He said the way the system described by Klein suggests a "wholesale, dragnet surveillance."

    Bankston argued that simply by diverting the data, even if it did not look at specific messages, the government violates Fourth Amendment protections against search and seizure without probable cause.

    Of the major telecom companies, only Qwest is known to have rejected government requests for access to data.

    Former Qwest CEO Joseph Nacchio, appealing an insider trading conviction last month, said the government was seeking access to data even before Sept. 11.

    Wednesday's press conference was conducted on Capitol Hill in the Senate Banking Committee's hearing room. The chairman of the Banking Committee, Connecticut Democrat Sen. Chris Dodd, who is also running for president, has said he will use procedural measures to block any legislation that offers retroactive immunity to telecom companies.

    [/rquoter]
     
  2. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Contributing Member
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    And as a bonus, from the ridiculous to the absurd:

    [rquoter]
    FBI Mined Grocery Store Records to Find Iranian Terrorists, CQ Reports -- Updated

    Bay Area FBI agents wanting to find Iranian secret agents data-mined grocery store records in 2005 and 2006, hoping that tahini purchases would lead them to domestic terrorists, according to Congressional Quarterly's Jeff Stein. The head of the FBI's criminal investigations unit - Michael Mason - shut down the Total Falafel Awareness program, arguing it would be illegal to put someone on a terrorist watch list for simply sticking skewers into lamb, Stein reports.

    [rquoter]
    Like Hansel and Gretel hoping to follow their bread crumbs out of the forest, the FBI sifted through customer data collected by San Francisco-area grocery stores in 2005 and 2006, hoping that sales records of Middle Eastern food would lead to Iranian terrorists.

    The idea was that a spike in, say, falafel sales, combined with other data, would lead to Iranian secret agents in the south San Francisco-San Jose area.

    The brainchild of top FBI counterterrorism officials Phil Mudd and Willie T. Hulon, according to well-informed sources, the project didn’t last long. It was torpedoed by the head of the FBI's criminal investigations division, Michael A. Mason, who argued that putting somebody on a terrorist list for what they ate was ridiculous — and possibly illegal.

    A check of federal court records in California did not reveal any prosecutions developed from falafel trails.

    [/rquoter]

    It's not clear how the FBI got the records to sift through in the first place - did grocery stores volunteer the data or get served with national security letters or the dread Section 215 of the Patriot Act.

    The other fun tidbit from the story - program stopper Mason is headed to a new job as head of security for Verizon. Sounds like a good hire since Verizon seems to need someone to say no to ridiculous FBI projects.

    (Note: THREAT LEVEL is aware that Persian cuisine isn't falafel-dominated, but well, Stein was rolling. We know with near-certainty that tracking saffron and egglant purchases at Safeway surely would have led the feds right to the mess hall of the San Jose chapter of the Iranian Revolutionary Guards.)

    UPDATE 11/09: The FBI denies this program existed.

    [/rquoter]
     
  3. pirc1

    pirc1 Contributing Member

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    Since we having nothing to hide. I suggest we install video monitor for every home and listening device as well. Oh and every street intersection and every public buildings as well. That will really show terrorists we are serious and they won't be able to do anything to us. :eek:
     
  4. cur.ve

    cur.ve Contributing Member

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    manhattan has every intersection with video surveillance beneath 72nd street, i think.
     
  5. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

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    Look people, we have GOT to protect the remnants of the ideal of our free way of life from the terrorists.

    And anyone who eats falafel after 9/11? ... Are you kidding me? They'll get what's coming to them. ... And I don't just mean being hungry an hour after they finish eating.
     
  6. pirc1

    pirc1 Contributing Member

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    Why stop there, tap every phone, get every web traffic, put a monitoring device on every person, wouldn't that make the country real safe?
     
  7. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Contributing Member

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    If you're not doing anything illegal, then what do you have to worry about? :p
     
  8. pirc1

    pirc1 Contributing Member

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    Why don't we form a police state like the old Soviet Union or China in the 60's and 70's? Where everyone report on everyone else.
     
  9. jo mama

    jo mama Contributing Member

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    ever heard of the bill of rights? people with attitudes like yours are the reason this country was founded in the first place.
     
  10. dntrwl

    dntrwl Member

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    reported
     
  11. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    Yep, I remember when studying the Bill of Rights that it said the FBI was not allowed to use data miners to collect information on terrorists from the electronic transmissions of the citizenry and from aliens communicating into or out of the United States. I think it was around the part that guaranteed the right to fly on commercial airlines wearing a mini-skirt.

    No wait, in fact the constitution, including all of the amendments, never makes a single reference to the word privacy, and the only guarantees relating to the entire area are to be secure in your person, house, papers, and effects. Unless you somehow define emails as effects, I don't see anything in the Bill of Rights regarding this issue. It isn't like the NSA is reading every single email, they are just using a computer to check if anyone is talking about making attacks against the US.
     
  12. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    With all due respect, this reads like the rationalizations Germans made regarding the policies of the National Socialist Party.



    D&D. Attempt Civility!

    Impeach Bush for Promoting Torture.
     
  13. across110thstreet

    across110thstreet Contributing Member

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    source?
     
  14. rimrocker

    rimrocker Contributing Member

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    Well, it looks like we're well on the way to the first two.
     
  15. rimrocker

    rimrocker Contributing Member

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    Great. And who would you trust to do this job?
     
  16. ChrisBosh

    ChrisBosh Member

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    turn on the sarcasm detector....
     
  17. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

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    [​IMG]

    ALL YOUR BANDWIDTH ARE BELONG TO US
     
  18. basso

    basso Contributing Member
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    i eat hummus, but it's made by israelis, and is kosher to boot, so it's probably safe.
     
  19. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

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    It would have been fine but you just admitted it on the internets, so now they KNOW.
     
  20. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    LOLO GOOD SARCHASMS LOLO
     

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