I just have a few things about Miller. He is a very good point guards who averages few turnovers, led in assists, and is a decent but not top-tier type scorer. However, why is he getting 10 assists in Cleveland. I'm not discrediting his ability at all, but I only saw maybe 6 games of his so I don't know him as well as you all do? I know Person and other player whose name I cannot recall are good 3pt shooters and Ricky Davis is a good finisher. Obviously Andre can run the fast break well so I guess some of them come throwing lobs to Davis a la Kidd to Martin or Marion in PHX. HE has good three-point shooters also, so that helps his assists as well...Anyways, I'm just amazed how he can get that many assists on a crappy team, but is it him making the players around him better or just complimentary players?
It's been a while but I think the Clipps were on there way to being a good team but Ron Harper hurt his knee fairly bad. I don't remember what year it was. It seemed like the Clipps had quite a bit of bad luck for a while Danny Manning had problems with his knees about the same time that Harper hurt his I think.
First off, Crash, those scenarios you put together sound like a lot of dreamcasting. Its very difficult to pull off one of those deals much less all of them. Its very easy to say, well they can package 8 and 12 together and move up to 5 or they can get an unprotected #1 in next yr's draft for one of those picks. These types of transactions are more the exception than the norm. I understand that Eddie Griffin is a great young talent, but you have to give something to get something. I said all along that my HUGEST concern in getting Ming was that Ming and Griffin would not be able to handle the inside grind of the NBA. Also, I followed by saying that I would be more ok with Ming if Griffin could net us in a trade something like what the #1 pick could, but I just felt it was ridiculous to think he could. However, due to recent developments and your very effective piecing together of info, it could be possible. Also, as an aside, Im not so sure that a lineup of Ming, Griffin, Odom, Mobley and Francis would gel together properly. If Griffin really is going to be Rasheed Wallace, he is going to need the necessary touches and shots. Thats a lot of basketball to share for those guys. I am from the school of thinking that you need an intangibles/hustle/defense guy in your rotation who doesnt require the ball. Amare Stoudamire, Nene Hilario?
Yes, Mmanal, I wonder about a team loaded with scorers, and the thin reeds of Ming, Odom, Griff. Somewhere you need to give up a future max contract. I don't know if they would give up Eddie. They do need someone who can bang down low. And Eddie is a power forward. If the Rockets gave up Eddie, they would have to be really, really impressed with Nene Hilario (I keep reading that he's The Goods; we'll soon see). As for Wilcox, who also recently worked out for the Rox, I can understand the Rockets' trying to placate Steve by bringing him in, and he should also be available at #6/7, but again, he'd have to be very impressive. The reasons why I think Eddie is slightly expendable are: 1) Ming will duplicate some of his skills (long-range shooting, blocked shots, rebounds); 2) Doc said KT isn't going anywhere "for reasons I can't explain now," which makes me think Griff or Mo has a For Sale sign around his neck.
"So for argument's sake, the trade would essentially be Eddie Griffin for Lamar Odom, Nene Hilario, and Amare Stoudamire. That just seems like we're getting way too much for an unproven player." No not really. The Rockets are sending Griffin plus 15 along with two throw in players and ending up with Odom, 8, 12. So its like Odom and 8 for Griffin along with moving up 3 spots in the draft. Ofcourse the Rockets get a good amount of talent back, though. They should, considering Griffin's potential, and Odom is on the last yr of his contract. Its just not completely outrageous like Odom, Hilario and Stoudamire for an unproven Griffin.
MManal, Believe me, I understand your points and agree that they have merrit. I just don't see Eddie (from watching him last year) as someone that demands the ball. He seems very content with letting the game come to him. His attitude on the court is very fresh to me and lacks the me first attitude that is usually displayed by most NBA players. As far as my scenerios are concerened they are just to show that they are numerus options. That many lottery picks gives a team leverage just like the leverage we had last year. There is almost always a team or two that would like an extra pick in the lottery...especially one that is considered deep. IMO Ming, Griffin and Odom are all players that do not demand the ball on offense. Ming and Griffin should be a terrific shot blocking duo and I really think Griff will be a very powerfull player as he continues to get older. Ming and Odom are both exellent passers and could have a number of offensive sets run thru them. Those three in the front court is very desirable to me. None of this is to say that Stoudemire or Hallario would not be a better fit but I would not want to move backwards by trading one player that just finished his first season as a 19 year old for another that is about to start his first season as a 19 year old unless I was fairly certain that one would be better than the other. Plus I believe that Griffin will be ready to contribute quite a bit next year. Of course this is all just Dreamcasting until some of it comes true. Since the trade scenario is from me and not an insider then the chance of it comming true are pretty thin if not non existant.
First of all Griffin and Ming are both very young. They will gain some weight. yes, they don;t have enforcer type bodies, but they'll be bigger than they are currently and fill out. Second, Ming and Griffin are not "need the ball all the time" type players. Griffin certainly isn't. And Ming probably isn;t either due to his passing skills. Most people who shoot all the time cannot pass. That is supposedly one of Ming's strengths. Last, I don;t know why some people are obsessed with Nene Hilario. Yes he is young with an NBA type body. However, the scouting report is that he's VERY raw. With the exception of Ben Wallace (who is EXTREMELY rare), most teams want a PF who can at least score a little. Ming's offensive skills are supposedly very polished. Yes Hilario maybe able to rebound, but is he going to average 8 more rebounds than Ming would? Somehow I doubt it. What is Hilario going to do on offense, just stand in the paint? Ming's passing and outside shooting will be a much bigger asset on the offensive end than Hilario's extra 1-2 rebounds per game. Especially when Hilario will offer 0 offensive skills other than rebounding.
Rox, Yup based on Doc's comment about KT it makes a lot of sense. Lets say hypothetically you go this route and acquire another 19 yr old or two in the draft along with Odom. Taylor and KT would still get your lion's share of PT at the 4 spot. KT would have the opportunity to show that his production was legit from last yr and would have huge trade value via a sign and trade next summer with another productive season. This would allow the Rockets to bring along Hilario or whoever else very slowly and still be a very competitive playoff level ball club with the addition of Odom and return of Taylor. Also, it is very possible the Rockets could be forced to go the Griffin route if they want this deal. Remember last summer the Wizards offered the #1 pick for Andre Miller and got shot down? Whats to prevent them from offering Kwame Brown and #11 for Miller this summer? I think the Cavs take that over 8, 12, 15.
Also, on this thing about Griffin not demanding the ball.... Your basing this off his rookie year. For the guy to become a Rasheed Wallace type player he will have to receive the ball outside of the flow of the offense thats just how it works. You dont become a preimer player like that with just shooting off ball rotations and such. Thats why Rasheed Wallace didnt blossom till he went to Portland. In any case, anyone who saw Griffin at Seton Hall knows that he used to jack up a lot of quick turnaround Js. Once he gains more experience, there is no way he is going to just shoot jump shots off ball rotations within the flow of the offense. If he does, he's not going to anywhere near maximize his potential.
