A snapshot of Westbrook's overrated (and Harden's underrated) defense

How does the fact that Nene didn't get the ball make it fine? That's just because Gordon decided not to pass it to him. Westbrook was still in the wrong position to cover either player. Of course you play the hypothetical on defense. That's exactly what Westbrook was doing by hedging off of Beverley. He was covering the hypothetical scenario where Gordon passes it to Nene, only he flagrantly half assed it, so he ended up not covering either player, and not even trying to recover on Pat once one of the two hypotheticals became reality.

If Westbrook had fully committed to helping on Nene, Grant would have probably come over. But he didn't. He just hung out in a vacuum staring at the ball the whole play.

 

I've watched the play like 10 times, and I have no idea what you're seeing with Nene... He was like five feet from the basket turned sideways, which would barely require any rotation for him to go up for a dunk or layup (you don't have to be square to the basket from that distance, and having his back to Westbrook, if anything, gives him the advantage).

And lulz @ 19 feet. C'mon, brah. The baseline 3-pt line is barely even 19 feet from the basket. He was like 12-15 feet tops. And he was objectively closer than Grant. Though Grant was arguably in better position to contest since he didn't [fully] have his back to Bev.

I'll give you the point about Adams, though. For some reason I thought he was on the ground still when that pass was made. He would have been screwed if Gordon passed it to Nene. But Westbrook was still in no position to help if that happened. (So if anything, you can argue that Gordon made the wrong pass)

I'm curious, though. Do you people defending Westbrook just think he made the right play here specifically? Or are you defending him because you actually believe he's a good defender in general?

 

Oh you're saying that Gordon didn't make that pass because Westbrook was there? Debatable, at best, but if so, that may be on Gordon. The fact remains that IF he DID make that pass, Westbrook was in bad position to stop Nene from scoring.

Anyways, my question above remains. Do you believe Westy is anything more than a trash defender? Or are you just defending this particular play?

 

I'm not saying he beats Westbrook to the basket. I'm saying he's close enough that Westbrook is not going to stop him from scoring or at the very *least* drawing a foul. (Most likely drawing a foul and getting two points if he was fouled). When a 6'3" PG tries to stop a 7-footer with a 100 lbs on him under the basket, it usually doesn't end well... Besides, it's not like we're talking about Nene beating him off the dribble or in an end-to-end foot race. Nene just has to take one small step as he goes up and likely puts Westbrook through the rim.

I'm just saying it's no coincidence that Beverley is shooting 67% in this series on 18 ppg. Westbrook is possibly the single worst defensive PG in the league, and this is one example of that, even if it's not necessarily the most blatant.

 

Dude, what? There is no way Westbrook is drawing an offensive foul there unless Nene did something REALLY stupid. Nene was already almost in the restricted area before even catching that pass, and Westbrook was still behind him. By the time he catches the ball and steps towards the basket, and Westbrook catches up, Westbrook (in the best case scenario) is literally underneath the basket. Completely ineligible to draw a charge. How is him being in the inner circle irrelevant in that case?

Also, you're right about the distance. The baseline three is further than I realized, so my mistake there. But Westbrook still was closer than Grant. And he had turned around fully by the time Bev caught the ball and elected to just stare at him. But I guess Grant knew that was going to happen as he started trying to close as the pass was in the air.

 

You took a while to reply, but somehow still missed my edits, heh. I conceded the point on distance, but again, the exact distance doesn't matter. The point in Bev being WB's man is that when it's even debatable who is closer to his man, then the defender who's man it is should be the one to close out. The fact that Westbrook WAS closer just makes matters even worse. It's like Westbrook forgot he even was supposed to be guarding Beverley since he looked surprised when the pass was thrown.

And what rules am I missing about the circle? If Nene catches the ball just outside the circle there, there is nowhere Westbrook can reasonably get to to draw a charge. If there's some weird caveat in the rules I'm unaware of, I'm all ears, but I'm pretty sure whatever it may be is a stretch. Westbrook was just not going to stop that play.

 

Again, the distance doesn't matter in the sense that he was still closer than his teammate. Of course in a general sense, it matters. But if he's so far from Beverley that he was literally incapable of recovering, yet he was still far enough from Nene that he he even MIGHT not be able to contest his shot, then what the hell is he doing?

OK, fine, I'll completely withhold judgment. Unlike you I've already admitted a couple of places where I was or may be wrong so far in this thread. You don't even seem open to the possibility. But I will say it is possible there exists some rule I'm not aware of where Nene could have realistically offensively fouled Westbrook. So are you going to tell me what this rule is?

He played more D in that 4th quarter than the rest of the game. He was guarding Westbrook on a handful of those shots in the 4th, for example, and at least attempted to close out on other attempts. But yes, he does leave something to be desired on that end a little too often. As I tried to make clear in my OP, my post was not about claiming Harden was Bruce Bowen (though WB can make him look like it sometimes).

 

Until someone can explain to me how Westbrook could possibly have stopped Nene in the position he was in, yeah, I'm keeping the argument up.

I know that WB was [at least partly] in that position for the sake of help defense, but my point is that he didn't do it effectively. He ended up being in a noncommittal position and was not going to be able to stop anything. No one has yet disproved this in any reasonable way. Just accept the possibility that you are wrong, Kim.