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(A Kyrie spinoff) The ADL needs to update their website and remove a controversial figure

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Scarface281, Nov 11, 2022.

  1. Scarface281

    Scarface281 Contributing Member

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    now let me say, the premise of the ADL is a great one and something we should all live by. no person should be discriminated against based on race, ethnicity, or religion.

    what I'm saying here is akin to getting rid of a confederate statue from a public park. overall the public park is a great resource for the community (or ADL in this case) but there's something in the park tainting it (in this case, mentions of Leo Frank).

    I took a look at the ADL history and I really think they should update their website by removing this. what do you all think?

    https://www.adl.org/about/mission-and-history

    what the ADL says is this:

    1. a Jewish business man in Atlanta (Leo Frank) ran a factory with child workers (very common at the time before child labor laws existed)
    2. one of his child workers goes missing and her body is found (Mary Phagan)
    3. Leo Frank is presumed to have done it but he says the Black security guard/janitor Jim Conley) at his factory did it
    4. the racist court in early 1900s Atlanta convicted the wealthy Jewish businessman instead of the Black guy who obviously did it
    5. The governor of Georgia John Slaton feeling that Leo Frank's conviction was wrong, overturns the death penalty given to him and changes it to life in prison
    6. Upon hearing this news, an angry mob of White Atlantans storm the jail, kidnapping Leo Frank, and hang him in present day Cobb County
    7. decades later in the 1980s, one of the witnesses, on his death bed, who was at the trial changes his story, now stating he saw Jim Conley with the corpse of the child. this is enough for the State of Georgia to officially, with big pushes from the ADL, exonerate Leo Frank. the ADL via an "investigative" report from the Tennessean newspaper, claims he said his White family was too afraid to go to the police in early 1900s Atlanta to tell them they know a Black guy murdered a young White girl, because they were afraid the Black guy would come after them
    8. Leo Frank is immortalized on the ADL website and to this day says Leo Frank was completely 100% innocent

    here's what actually happened:

    1. Leo Frank was a wealthy Jewish business man in Atlanta who ran a factory with child workers (very common)
    2. he was known to get flirtatious with his female child workers by numerous employees. his favorite one was the young girl who was murdered, Mary Phalgan
    3. on the day of the murder, leo frank was said to be acting very erratically and his timeline on where he was during the time of the murder did not match others who say they were near/in the factory. he told investigators one thing then would change his story minutes later.
    4. at trial, this was confirmed through official court testimony. there were numerous eyewitnesses that corroborated these claims that Leo Frank was flirtatious with his child employees as well, including 20 girls who said Leo Frank was a molester.
    5. Leo Frank's lawyers tried to play up on the racism at the time, saying it was obvious this "Negro did the crime, look at him!"
    6. but based on the evidence the jury (all White men of course) wasn't buying it, and convicted Leo Frank then sentencing him to death due to the severity of the crime. Jim Conley wasn't completely absolved, as he got a year for accessory after the fact (Leo Frank was asking Jim Conley to cover for him essentially, promising a big payout if successful)
    7. the governor of Georgia at the time, John Slaton, was good friends with Leo Frank's father. he also owned the law firm that represented Leo Frank during the trial
    8. the ADL has been trying to cover for Leo Frank ever since


    ***now here's where the conspiracy comes in***. the part that isn't recorded in court/trial history (you can go find what the witnesses said, etc.). the ADL could have paid off one of the witnesses (Alonzo Mann) who was near their death bed in the 80s to change their story and say that actually they saw Jim Conley with the dead white girl, not Leo Frank. could it have been life changing money for the generations below this person? the ADL has used this change of story to get Leo Frank pardoned from the State of Georgia. The Tennessean ran a story in the 80s on this before the internet and case files were public, so reading their story on it is cringe worthy (story link).

    it just seems strange to me that a White family in 1910s Atlanta would be too afraid to go to the police to tell about a Black guy who murdered a little white girl. I feel like Atlanta/Georgia police back then would have been all over that. this alone makes the story the ADL is selling skeptical to me and the article from the 80s a made up story

    what does everyone think? should the ADL just update their history page and remove mention of Leo Frank and keep it moving? seems to me he is too controversial and tarnishes the image somewhat.

    if you want to look at the trial files yourself, you can go here: Prosecution Side of the Leo M. Frank Case and Review – Leo Frank Case Archive
     
  2. mdrowe00

    mdrowe00 Member

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    ...I don't think the ADL would or will do anything like update this information (i.e., accurately listing stated, documented facts of the referenced case at the time of trial, which is about as close to a starting point for determining the truth as we're likely to find regarding this).

    This will be, for me, an unfortunately broad brush with which to paint this situation (to include, if only tangentially, the recent messes with Kanye West and Kyrie Irving), but I believe that the last thing that the ADL would do in this situation is exonerate a black man at the expense of a Jewish man...particularly in the politically and (still) racially charged climate of today.

    Whatever anybody is inclined to believe about the Jewish community et al (particularly here in the United States), it is most probably a definitive likelihood that, when confronted with any type of threat to their existence, the Jewish community will rally to defend itself.

    They understand completely the power of persuasive and persistent propaganda swaying and agitating a populace (however educated or knowledgeable that populace is or is not) into manic and destructive activity at the first opportunity.

    Looking at this incident from our lens of today is problematic for this reason, to me: in the early part of the 20th century (we'll round the numbers out to between 1900 to about 1940), one of the only things as bad (if not worse) socially than being black was possibly being Jewish.

    Most Jews who immigrated to the United States in that time were functionally illiterate in American English. And you could say the same things about any other eastern European immigrants at that time. Jewish people who arrived at Ellis Island, New York, couldn't read, write or spell their own names in English, so they had to sign documents with a Jewish character from their religion to identify themselves as Jews. "Kike" (short for kikel, the English translation of this mark Jewish people made on their naturalization papers at the time) was, and I believe still is, something of an equivalent to the "N" word for black people in this country...

    ...but at the end, it is still difficult to imagine that anyone in that time could believe that, given the option of blaming someone black of a crime as opposed to anyone else was not possible is extremely far-fetched.

    Race is a social construct...and for the record, being Jewish is not a racial designation, but a religious or traditional familial disposition, even though it largely became so here, prior to and after World War II. This construction did not begin here on these shores, but it has been used to great effect here, for various purposes. Race as social status or identifier was a more-or-less "modernized" version of the old European caste systems, which tended to fix groups of people into social classes generationally.

    To make a long story short (or as short as I'm likely to make anything when I get like this;)), history is only as true or as relevant as one's own predilection towards self-preservation, and subsequently, self-edification. And I don't expect the ADL to do anything more than survive and preserve itself here.

    ...to wrap this back around to both Kanye West and Kyrie Irving...sometimes, what you don't know (or more specifically, what someone else has told you you should know) about "your" history as black people in America can hurt you.

    West and Irving can believe whatever they want to believe...about black lost Hebrew Israelite tribes or mad, rat-faced scientists experimenting on "original" (read:black) human beings to create the "white", "devil" race...a "kind of man"...in the myth-making vernacular...

    ...(all of which, incidentally, to me, isn't any more preposterous than believing in little green men from Mars, or green cheese from the moon, or Santa Clauses or Easter Bunnies or whatever floats your boat...and tends to speak to me of a loss or misappropriation of what most ethnic groups outside of black Americans have, and that is a sense of identity outside of the "traditional" American narrative)...

    ...but there is no such thing, to me, as "hidden" truth. And telling essentially the same racial or ethnic lies about one race that were used on you is no truth at all...;)
     
    B-Bob and FranchiseBlade like this.

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