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53 trillion dollar total debt

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Invisible Fan, Jan 17, 2008.

  1. Major

    Major Member

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    The ONLY solution to the long-term fiscal issues is to fix SS and Medicare - maybe even rebuild them from the ground up. The growth simply has to be slowed one way or another. Cutting military or any other expenditures won't make a dent in the problem.
     
  2. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Contributing Member

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    Axe SS. Turn medicare into a universal system.

    Impossible? Probably.

    Thinking about all this makes me depressed. Yuck.
     
  3. ymc

    ymc Member

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    What about we simply declare bankruptcy for SS and Medicare? Do you think there will be riots on the street?

    Anyway, I don't think we are destined for a default on debts because as a democratic country, our politicians won't do anything that requires our citizens to sacrifice.
     
  4. lpbman

    lpbman Member

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    At some point, it will be out of the politicians hands... if it isn't already.
     
  5. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Contributing Member

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    "The American Republic will endure, until politicians realize they can bribe the people with their own money."

    - Alexis de Tocqueville
     
  6. weslinder

    weslinder Contributing Member

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    Personally, I'd rather just let them hire Blackwater, if they want.
     
  7. HOOP-T

    HOOP-T Member

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    Why doesn't the govt. just call one of those credit counseling services....and lower and consolidate their debt into one easy, affordable monthly payment????????????????????????

    :D :rolleyes: :p ;) :confused: :(
     
  8. weslinder

    weslinder Contributing Member

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    They don't want to have a blemish on their credit. Which brings up a better question: Other than "we aren't in the worst shape, many other countries are worse", how do the United States still have a AAA credit rating?
     
  9. DonkeyMagic

    DonkeyMagic Contributing Member
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    medicare can barely be afforded, how will they pay for universal healthcare?
     
  10. weslinder

    weslinder Contributing Member

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    According to those advocating it, we just have to roll back the Bush tax cuts. :rolleyes:
     
  11. DonkeyMagic

    DonkeyMagic Contributing Member
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    it really amazes me that someone who is for more govt aid is wanting to cut SS and pay more in health...1 step forward, 2 steps back.

    right...damn that bush, look where he put america with his tax cuts for the rich!
     
  12. ymc

    ymc Member

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    Actually Japan's national debt is in much worse shape compare to us. But fortunately, their national debts are mostly held by their own citizens, so they can just keep printing money without the danger of a serious capital flight.

    Our problem is that 44% of our debt are held by foreigners. So dollar can collapse if we keep printing money without end.

    As to why US has AAA rating, don't you know that the rating agencies are American companies? ;)
     
  13. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Contributing Member

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    Are you talking to me? I'm not a huge welfare advocate or anything, not quite sure where you got that.


    I'd kill SS because it's not effective. If you are under 50 and counting on SS when you retire you're nuts. The money is insufficient, and the politicians have refused to face the ever-growing problem. Let folks keep that money. If they want to be stupid and blow it all on stupid stuff - that's their own perogative. But I'd rather save that money myself then let some politician borrow from it like a federally mandated piggy bank, while promising me that somehow I'll get my own money later. Yeah right. My freaking great-grandchildren will be paying my SS at the rate we're going.

    I advocate universal health care because you cannot just "stop" medicare (that's roughly akin to trying to outlaw guns). But you can make it less expensive for everyone else too. Health insurance in america is messed up and ludicrously expensive, and I'd rather deal with cumbersone beurocracy than faceless and ultra-greedy corporations.

    Will a universal health care system actually save me money? After all the political arm-wrestling is over, I doubt it - but hey, I was trying to be optimistic for once.
     
    #33 rhadamanthus, Jan 18, 2008
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2008
  14. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Contributing Member

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    Nah. I like the tax cuts. I just think the economic fairytale that reducing taxes will inevitiably reduce government spending is just that, a fairy tale provided you can defecit-spend and just pass along the godzilla of debt.

    I also think cutting taxes, followed by the most economically liberal spending spree imaginable (republican "small government at it's finest :rolleyes: ) and a overseas war is ****ing r****ded. I don't think you need an economics degree to see how daffy that is.
     
  15. Major

    Major Member

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    Various parts of the theory include:

    1. Covering everyone reduces cost per person due to the volume effect.

    2. Expanded preventive care can substantially reduce the number of much more expensive medical costs down the road.

    3. We already pay for the uninsured anyway in that hospitals have to provide life-saving care for the uninsured. So if you create a better system to handle those problems before they become expensive life-saving procedures, you'll cut the total spending on health care.

    4. Money saved from the methods above free up more discretionary income for people to spend on lifestyle that helps expand the US economy.

    5. Time saved from better preventive care pays for itself in terms of less work time lost due to illness.

    How valid these theories are, who really knows.
     
  16. weslinder

    weslinder Contributing Member

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    I wasn't talking about you in particular. I was mostly talking about Hillary Clinton.
     
  17. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Contributing Member

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    Heck, I'd consider it an improvement if it got all those idiots out of the emergency room so that I can get my heart-attack attended to in under an hour.
     
  18. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Contributing Member

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    Ah. Agreed. She is a twit.
     
  19. Air Langhi

    Air Langhi Contributing Member

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    Its easy allow medicine to be more capitalistic. The AMA regulates the numbers of doctors that can come in or go to school, and the FDA regulates the drugs. Get rid of all of it let cheap knock of brands sell their drugs, lets increase the number of doctors available. Prices will fall. We might lose some quality, but its not like its great now days.
     
  20. rhester

    rhester Contributing Member

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    Making light of a very serious subject.

    What is going to happen is the bankers (the ones we owe) are either going to gradually take us down, say step us down to the standard of living of say a France, then a Germany, then a Romania or there abouts...
    or
    They will takes us down a little quicker which would require their cronies in government to have the military ready for civil unrest.

    I am sure they are trying the gradual approach and I for one hope it works. But I am sure they have contingency after contingency in place because that is how they operate.

    At this time the central bankers will need nations like China, India, Mexico and others to step up and provide them liquidity and I am sure they are working as hard as possible to get industry rolling in these nations where labor is cheap and natural resources available.

    That is why we have a federal reserve system to manage the bankers debt to our government, that is what central banks all over the world do.

    Private super wealthy bankers hold all the cards because they have created a debt based world.

    You just can't default on your national debt without them squeezing your money supply to the point of a super depression.

    Ask Russia how the squeeze felt in the late 1990's?

    Anyways debt is the problem and we probably can't fix it.

    Our standard of living will mellow out somewhere between Mexico's and Canada's over the coming 10-20 years because of our debt and having a central bank squeeze us. Notice I did not say that is a plan, it is my stupid opinion of how our huge debt load is really going to affect us long term.
     

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