Who give's a damm about what a few germans think of America.I think that jovi had the sole intent of picking a fight here.Why else did you start off with here we go again ? This thread could go on forever.Fact is that you find people with all the personality trait's jovi mentioned in every society.SO WHAT
Many of you should be ashamed. I really find it hard to believe that it took so little to make some of you that defensive and aggressive. I'm really shocked because in no way was Jovi being aggressive or accusational. Here are the observations again: Superficial? I would agree that we give the impression of being quite vain. Money and "toys" tend to always be high on our list of priorities. Proud? Isn't every country? Extreme? We have all types with a wide range of beliefs. We do cover the spectrum in all aspects of life. Prudish? I wouldn't have thought so but I am told that many Europeans view us as prudent. I guess this makes sense if you think about it. Why are we taught to be ashamed of our bodies and sexualality? Why is OK for men to be topless and not women? Why are so many parents reluctant to teach there kids the truth about sex and drugs? Many European countries have proven that when kids are educated with the truth at an early age they have less problems in the future with alcoholism, sexually transmitted diseases, drug abuse, and teenage pregnancy. Ambitious? You betcha! You have to be ambitious to be superficial! Religious? I've lived in towns where there are more churches than people, or so it seems. Innovative? Yup. (See Ambitious or Superficial) Racist? Sad but true. Don't take it so personal. This is not a finger pointing at just you. There is no reason for any individual to get so worked up by this observation unless you are actually a racist. Racism is everywhere and in every country in various forms. Truly sad. European racism seems to be more territorial whereas American racism seems to be ethnic. As it has been pointed out a few time, this is probably because we are the melting pot of all nations. MoonDogg, no offense man but you were completely out of line with your initial reply to Jovi. No reasoning can justify your defensive and racist-like reply. You nearly validated every trait that Jovi mentioned all in one post. Congratulations. Jovi, I'm sorry that you got attacked and blasted by close-minded Americans. You were, after all, only trying to stimulate an intellectual and educational conversation. Like RM95, I find these opportunities to be educational, fun, and intriging. I only wish that I had the opportunity to communicate with people from around the world when I was going to school. The internet finally allows all cultures to communicate and learn from each other. Thanks for the interesting post, Jovi. Keep it up. [This message has been edited by SpaceCity (edited February 23, 2000).]
you know what you are right Daro...and I still agree with MoonDog... He was just being german about the whole "we are better than you" type inferences from his first post...Thats been their "tragic flaw" from the outset they have an inferiority complex and all they can do is talk about us hence them talking about us in some class on the other side of the world....its a myopia just let it slide guys...and no i dont think i am stereotyping either..its best to just agree with them...say yeah "whatever" and move on..... we know the truth here..so do they... they are convinced of their superiority and their blind nature, excuse me his blind nature is common yet maybe exceptionally different and possibly over the top in relation to the norm...I was just so overwhelmed by the comedy of such an initial post i had to say something...How about that helmut kohl and the corrupt government that was sweet what happened yesterday with that... and his(germanys) local problems including the racism against turks and pakistanis... that was what i meant jovi when i said look at yourself you myopian that what you guys should be worrying about in your class..and stay off here with criticism and negative posts... like i said before even if i thought germany was the crappiest place in the world...i dont think i would take the time to go on to some german website and tell them that or do anything similar..whats the point? just chalk it up to a german being a german....again the inferiority that i was talking about...whoah that was narrowminded..but then again I am extreme proud superficial american right?..you europeans convince yourself that we do not know anything...thats the tragic flaw i was talking about and the reason for your own problems like unemployment, corruption etc...what do I know though right?..and by the way ace your negativity is the same thing that I am talking about....and just admit the americans did help to a degree during WWII why cant you? Is it that hard to compliment us guys...? I like holland...rijksmuseum...hot chicks..skunk#5mixed with silverhaze....heneiken brewery...beautiful countryside.... I like germany...radler...englishgarten...bmw..porshce...claudia schiffer... I am not going to say anything else negative there is nothing constructive in that jovi and it will not prove anything..... take care....
Lynus: Wow. I´m impressed. You seem to have traveled a lot through Europe, which is quite surprising for such young a student like you. You remarks, however, were very interesting. Just one note: If you a Rocket cheerleader (which implies that you must be extremely good-looking), do you really think people buy you drinks in order to talk to you about prejudices However, let me tackle a few of your points. Having been to most of the countries and thanks to my European origin, I might be qualified to say something here: 1. The English are all snotty with bad teeth and warm beer. Snotty? OK. Agree. They (to a bigger extent than other countries do) believe that England is the best country in the world and use to refer to the rest of Europe as "the continent". But it´s ok.. Bad teeth? LOL. now that´s funny. Never heard of that one. Definitely not true, the level of medical utilities is not that bad. Warm Beer? Wrong. They (and that´s what a German ca´t understand) like to drink their beer without this nice white crown, which flat out sucks. he French are not only snotty, but incredibly rude, incredibly smelly, and the females are incredibly hairy. Funny. I was astonished when I first found out that you consider the French to be rude. They are true gentleman and their "savoir-vivre" is praised all along Europe. Plus, over here, it is believed that French women are the best by far. The Polish are none too bright, none too attractive, and are all drunks. Well, (sorry pole) we have te prejudice that the Polish are all thieves...the women are good-looking, remember this one great Bind-girl which came from Poland? 8. Finally on to Germany, who are all a bunch of beer-swilling, master-race Nazis with superior automotive engineering. Master-race Nazis? Nope. Only few people still believe in the Germans as the master race, which does not mean we don´t have any problems with Turks, Albanians etc. Nothing is as good as a German beer, and the Hofbraeuhaus us definitely the best place to drink one. BUT: You WILL NEVER EVER find a true Bavarian in the Hofbraeuhaus, it is full of tourist from a) germany and b) the rest of the world. No Bavarian would ever enter the Hofbraeuhaus, it´s just a tourist attraction. Nevertheless, when I vistied Munich, I had a great time drinking my Mass and listening to the music. It was so much fun. We don´t really drink that much beer...except for the days that end on a "Y". ***** MoonDogg really verified a few prejudices of mine, especially when he started to talk about the American Dream. Don´t get me wrong: We don´t have something like it, but it´s a deep-rooted sentiment over here that every American uses to refer to the pursuit of happiness whenever he gets a chance. Daro: <Who give's a damm about what a few germans think of America.> As you can see, educated people do. PS: Here we go again refers to my former posts about Texans, which were of a different nature.
I have read, re-read, and re-read Jovi's post at least 20 times. Where are some of you getting these inferences that Jovi feels that his country is so much better than the U.S.? And if he does, what's wrong with that. Do most of us not feel that the U.S. is better than Germany? Some of you people need some much thicker skin.
The next lines are directed at SirHangover: Thanks for your remarks. I will probably make a print-out and present them to my class as an example of an unfriendly American. As you can see, there are many nice people over here which are able to lead a decent discussion. I believe the Americans are very nice people (most of them are really friendly, judging from my own experience and from what my pals tell me), but people like you verify some prejudices as well. <<.Thats been their "tragic flaw" from the outset they have an inferiority complex>> Now that really shows how narrow-minded you are. It´s a perfect example. You seem to have a problem to discuss about AMERICA, because you can´t stand critisism against your great country. This, indeed, shows how incredibly prejudiced you are. It´s interesting to see. But, how come you think we have an inferiority complex? That´s the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Germany lost the war because of the US intervening, but that´s not the point. Do you really think my generation considers America the enemy? We only know the war from our grandparents´ tales, and there is nothing MY generation has to be ashamed of. Germany developed into one of the leading countries in the EU, if not the world. <<its best to just agree with them...say yeah "whatever" and move on..... we know the truth here..so do they>> As the other members of this BBS see, this foolish reply does not deserve any comment. Is it because you are not able to discuss? Nice tactic. <<How about that helmut kohl and the corrupt government that was sweet what happened yesterday with that... and his(germanys) local problems including the racism against turks and pakistanis>> Yep. We have local problems, thanks for letting me know. How did you find out? Finding out that about Kohl´s corruption was a major blow, but do you really believe there is no corruption in the great USA? Even you have to be clever enogh to realize that this is not the case. What about your problems with horrible high school shootings? Things like that do not happen over here. Does your great country have any decent plans as far as social security is concerned? We do. And racism remains one of the biggest problems over there, don´t close your eyes. <<i dont think i would take the time to go on to some german website and tell them that or do anything similar..whats the point?>> Well, believe it or not, here are some guys that like to discuss things, especially the good old posters from the days when you were still trying to learn how to send an email. That´s why I posted this here, I appreciate their comments/remarks on my critical views. <<just chalk it up to a german being a german>> Just as I chalk it up to you being the worst possible example for an prejudiced American. <<you europeans convince yourself that we do not know anything...thats the tragic flaw i was talking about and the reason for your own problems like unemployment, corruption etc>> Yeah, right. The US does not have any problems, right? Finally, this proves how narrow-minded you are: <<I like holland...rijksmuseum...hot chicks..skunk#5mixed with silverhaze....heneiken brewery...beautiful countryside.... I like germany...radler...englishgarten...bmw..porshce...claudia schiffer...>>
Jovi- To clear up what I think is a little confusion: 1. The stereotypes I listed are media stereotypes of sorts here in America. Those are the things we hear in the states concerning particular Europeans. The only other prejudiced viewpoints I've heard other than American are English, which I'm sure differ from the rest of Europe's stereotypes. Its like this maybe, from a European point of view: A. All US Southerners are prejudiced, racist, and know-nothing hillbilly rednecks. (not true) B. All US blacks are drug-dealers and thieves. (not true) C. Everyone in Texas rides a horse, carries a gun, and has a huge cowboy hat. (not entirely true) NEXT ISSUE I AM A 24 YEAR OLD MAN/GUY/MALE, DAMMIT I never thought someone would question my gender on this site, but it sounds like an honest mistake, so listen up and I'll forgive you this time: 1. My "cheerleader" signature goes back a ways on this site to when everyone was divided into two camps, pessimists and optimists. The optimists took up the nickname of cheerleaders because I think some pessimist accused us of only being 'cheerleaders' and 'not looking at the big picture.' We all liked the nickname because we love the Rockets and believe they can win every time they step onto the floor. That is why I call myself a cheerleader. 2. As for my travels, yes I am a college student, and no, my family is not wealthy... my mom works for British Airways in Houston. That is why I've been everywhere, because I have been incredibly fortunate that my mom can get free tickets anywhere in the world. Let me repeat that bit from above, Jovi: I AM A MAN Thank you ------------------ Proud Cheerleader 'til we move to New Orleans 302
Ups. Sorry for the mixup. (That´s quite embarrassing now, especially for someone who claims to be one of the good old posters) <<All US blacks are drug-dealers and thieves>> From follwing the USA (by watching movies and reading books), I believe that´s what the white Americans think of the blacks.
This is you jovi -"What about your problems with horrible high school shootings? Things like that do not happen over here. Does your great country have any decent plans as far as social security is concerned? We do." Okay...that doesnt sound arrogant? like the "better than you" attitude that I have been talking about since the beginning of your desire to cheapshot us....its your tone buddy..just because I am disagreeing with you in a constructive way and stating facts not opinion you are beginning to act this way... what are you talking about anyway? in my first post I agreed that there are indeed problems here...I agree again so I guess I need to keep saying that over and over...yes there are problems here...yes there are problems here...that is not the issue jovi..I just do not believe and its is right and I feel it to be VERY hypocrtical to say the things you say in light of how you are acting here and how (not to stereo type) but germans are and have been for the past 100 years at least.... I cited helmut kohl(political corruption), german racism (turks, pakistanis), unemployment(hovers around 15%) I could go on and on...therefore it is very annoying to hear your b*ll**** from you...and i am tired of europeans continually bashing americans....look at your own country man!!!!!!! jesus christ!!!in other words why come on here and create this negativity.....like our own admin said "Extreme" and "racist"....? This, coming from Germans?" you are making yourself into a laughing stock and validating my point...your myopia is almost sad.... I hold an EU passport I have been to germany 4 times spending collectively 2 months in germany itself and have lived in other parts of europe for over 2 years in my adult life...so dont tell me I dont know what I am talking about.... Bottom line here again..is why come on here and try and stir up this bbs with negativity about americans when you have problems of your own?why? like dr of dunk said these traits are everywhere...i am sick and tired of germans thinking they are so f*cking great..and yes you do act that way as evidence in your post especially my quote from your posts..and then on top of that come and tell us we are racist, extreme, superficial?always quick to bash us for such bad people all the time...thats the inferiority complex...face it..that is a classic example of an inferiority...i prove it through factual citation and you begin to get more and more sensitive... print this out and tell your class this part as well....i want you to... by the way whats wrong with claudia schiffer?
WILL SOMEBODY PLEASE POINT OUT THE POSTS WHERE JOVI CALLS GERMANS MUCH BETTER CITIZENS THAN AMERICANS? SHOW ME THE PART WHERE JOVI SAYS THAT THERE ARE ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEMS IN GERMANY. He's just sharing his experiences. He's not proving anybody's points. However, people are proving his classmates right. All he did was share with us what many Germans believe about Americans, it was not a flame attempt. Maybe to promote a debate, but it was not a flame attempt. If it was, I'm sure we'd be able to tell.
rocketman95: by highlighting our racism,extremist,superficial etc statement from the outset it is to me an inference that american are like that and that they as germans are not...I think that is a foregone conclusion just from his first post and even more evident when I quote him here: "What about your problems with horrible high school shootings? Things like that do not happen over here. Does your great country have any decent plans as far as social security is concerned? We do. And racism remains one of the biggest problems over there, don´t close your eyes." he even brings up the racist thing again...what a joke.. I am sick and tired of germans coming in with their hot sh*t attitude and saying things that he implied in the first post pointing out regarding our shortcomings then stated explicitly "Things like that do not happen over here" it is that holier then thou attitude that many many many people have pointed out to me time and again has surfaced in my life experiences... I am equally at fault for generalizing "germans" as I know they are not all like that.....but this attitude from him and from germans time and again comes up ...case in point here he has to come on a US website and point those out to us? To begin and end with this is hypocrisy at its finest ...pure and simple rocketman95....he doesnt need to explicitly state this although for my arguments sake he did even though it was already a forgone conclusion...i am going to defend that attitude especially from a german because it just makes me sick....
I don't believe Ive ever agreed with Rocketman95 on anything on this bbs. But I have to agree with him on this. I find it absolutely hilarious that one can get so upset about the perception of being a racist, then go out and use racist slurs. If you truely hate the idea of being stereotyped a racist, why then would you use racist attacks? Ive read, re-read and analyzed this thread. As an American, and a minority. I found absolutely nothing wrong with Jovi's passing along of Germans "perceptions" of Americans. Dreamer...buddy, you nailed it on the head. Its easy to look at another country and claim "Look at the horrible things you did", yet forget some of the horrible transgressions against blacks, asians, and native americans created by Americans. Lets not forget that this country was stolen from the Native Americans, who we lied to, and killed off to take what they wanted. Then grew and prospered off of slavery. Lets not forget that while Americans were fighting the "Racists" in germany, at home we were still lynching blacks, not even allowing blacks basic human rights. Now don't get me wrong. I don't have a hate for America. Just trying to keep this a civil, and interesting topic.
All I know is that Jovi ran a cool SIM League once and I was in it. And that he's a cool German dude. Lay off the discussion, he only "mentioned" the terminology used by his fellow classmates, not necessarily himself!! Good grief Charlie Brown!! ------------------ Proud Father of the Rockets' future point guard.
Jovi: I'm afraid I'd have to disagree with you about the beer. Taking it to mean "bitter", it is supposed to be served not chilled (so I guess you could call it warm), and whether you have a head on top of it or not is simply personal preference (I prefer it). Have to agree about the teeth, this set I'm wearing at the minute are great Never been to Germany, so I can't really comment, but I drive a VW Golf, so I'd agree with Lynus about the cars. I like the French, I've always found them very friendly whenever I've visited (especially if you make the effort to try to speak the language), and the women are perfectly fine. Hope to visit the US this summer to confirm some of my prejudices (all Americans are fat, stupid and wear cowboy hats ). [This message has been edited by GBRocksFan (edited February 23, 2000).]
Oh Dreamshake, I'm sure we've agreed on something at least once before. What about that Rudy T thing? Oh wait. What about the Astros trades? Oh wait. My last take on this. Jovi, don't let any of these people stop you from sharing your experiences. Obviously some have not been here long enough to realize that you don't have bad intentions when you post.
SirHangover, Dude what's your problem?! Why are you so defensive? Why are you not getting that Jovi did not create this post to accuse and offend Americans? Why aren't you able to constructively join this conversation without attacking Jovi, and Germans in general, everytime you post? I can understand if you disagree with the observations of his classmates. While these traits may not be correct in representing you or me, they do desribe many people that live in this country. Those are the people that are seen on TV. They are in magazines. They are in the news. Once again, I'd like to thank Jovi for presenting us with these observations. No longer do we have to rely on stereotypes. We no longer have to assume that what we see on TV is representative of all people in any given country. We now have the Internet. We now have the ability to have people-to-people conversations. We can communicate directly with each other. If you can't handle having a constructive conversation then maybe you should just choose not to post on this topic. I'm not sure what nerve of yours got touched but you are really coming across as an angry aggressive person. Peace
Dear jovi, yeah okay you struck a nerve with me and my emotions overcame me and i lashed against you and singled you out...for that i am apologizing.... Nevertheless,i still believe that it is not fair and somewhat hypocritical to come on here and say(or imply) negative stereo typical things like that for the sake of discussion or argument...maybe its just me but i wouldnt do that...the stereotypes that you or your classmates have are unfortunate...obviously everyone has them(myself included) and although an open forum i still think its not necessary to come here and express them in that initial tone..maybe its the tone and your way of expression in english..maybe it was well intended but I was offended...I am playing more devils advocate than anything for the sake of argument and because i have and idea what i am talking about and are we all supposed to agree...?"yeah jovi your right we are racist, religious, superficial, extremists...." I am not the "ugly american" and when in germany i do my best to respect and embrace their differences...one would expect the same here in a US bbs and highlighting traits in a manner that to me represent somewhat of a shot at the US can be discussed yet naturally defended..we can talk for hours about what people 200 years ago did to indians and we can talk about the injustices of slavery in the US as well as your countries past problems...but you are not the one most likely to blame for those injustices as I am not to blame for slavery...for that matter... anyway peace to you.... it doesnt need to go any further as their is no point to arguing you are no better than i am nor your country as much as you may want to believe that.. I never will...and i am no better than you.. and you posting "so called" traits is only counterproductive to the fun we should be having here....i only wish to disagree with inconsistencies when i see them and I have said what i need to say...hopefully fellow bbsers will see this as my attempt to be friendly with no malice intended and we can move on to more worthwhile causes..thank you.... Regards, john
POST 1: Can an Admin or whoever funked up this thread please fix it, so I can read the thing without scrolling left and right? Please? POST 2: Actually, I think it was "sirhangover". Not trying to point fingers, but when you use a lot of "...." and dont' put spaces inbetween them and the words on either side of them, then they force the screen to scroll, if they just so happen to come near the end of the right side of the post window. Then again, I could be wrong. POST 3: Thanks [This message has been edited by DREAMer (edited February 25, 2000).]
I agree with you Dreamer. The left-right scroling is driving me nuts. I think it is because of a long-ass URL someone posted above. Someone please fix this! ------------------ Proud Cheerleader 'til we move to New Orleans 302
