Who also happens to be a master at moving without the ball, puts on a clinic on how use screens and can dominate games while taking like 5 dribbles total or less a game. He can’t be serious.
And then uses Reggie miller, Ray Allen and Rip Hamilton as other examples. Those players fit nowhere close to the profile of Whitmore. All those guys have the body of endurance runners. The type of high level off ball scorer requires some serious cardio endurance if you see how often these dudes run around in half court sets.
Anthony Edwards came into the league at age 19 with far better handles and is a different tier of lateral shifty player(the same tier as Jalen).compared to Whitmore. That's why Edwards is so special and a much more special talent than Whitmore. He has the strength of a player like Whitmore with near the quickness and agility of Green. There is a reason why that dude was selected number one overall. Whitmore has above average agility for a sf. Edwards has elite agility for a guard.
Ray Allen and Reggie Miller are on that list with Klay Thompson of some of the greatest shooters the game has ever seen. RIP is one of the best mid range shooters of all time. You keep doubling, tripling down on your ridiculous original take and it sounds wilder by each post. Keep going….
Yeah - totally agree. I think the hope for Whitmore is he becomes a Eric Gordon type of 2 way wing scorer - can play off ball but can also create if needed...and makes winning plays even when the offense isn't going through him. I totally agree that his "work" for the next few years is learning to be in the right spots off ball and making quick reads once he gets it. Some of the suggestions people are making about him taking over Green's role shows a lack of understanding nuance in player capabilities and in positional roles.
Cam isn't a borderline generational athlete like Jalen or Edwards. Whitmore by no means has the lateral shiftiness of elite shifty pgs. No freaking way the Rockets will set him up to fail like that. If his defense comes through he'll be defending the likes of Jaylen Brown and whatever modern version of Kawhi there is. That's the type of player he can be a great defender on.
This is Summer League, we will see how he plays in the NBA soon enough. It's going to be quite the adjustment from summer league to nba. Plus we have a packed roster, so he will really have to play well for a rookie to crack the rotation. Unless he really shows it during training camp and pre-season, I would say it would be best to eat up a lot of minutes in the G League and work on his craft.
Since Barkley, Pippin, Pete Chilcutt, Brice Drew, Brent Price, Dwight Howard, Jeremy Lin, Tyler Ennis, Marquese Chriss, MCW, Carmelo Anthony, Corey Brewer, Brandon Knight, Ty Lawson, Stromile Swift, Victor Oladipo, on and on and on.
I agree on the Eric Gordon comparison. I keep imagining a bigger, more agressive version of EGO when I see Whitmore. Also, because he's built like a linebacker, he should be able to power his way to the rim and depend less on foul calls than Gordon does.
I already told you his combine numbers are on par with Anthony Black and Jarace Walker, two players noted for their shiftiness and ability guard multiple positions. The stuff you are saying are not objective and just based on suppositions, Green and Edward's didn't go to the combine so we can't say how their agility tests out. And even if they are indeed generational, it's still irrelevant since you don't need to be on par with Green and Edward's to play SG. Did you watch SL? Did you see Whitmore keeping up with Cason Wallace 1on1? None of the stuff you are saying have any basis it's all just your opinion with nothing to back it up. You are the one setting him up to fail by putting him at positions he is disadvantaged and undersized in. You want Cam to play at positions where his strength and athleticism just make up for him being undersized and short armed instead of playing him where he is more suited where his power and athleticism will make him unstoppable. Whats the advantage of Whitmore vs Bari or Tari? Both Bari and Tari can do what he does and they are taller and lengthier than him as well. Oth, at SG Whitmore becomes a unique prospect who can bully other on the perimeter similar to Wade or Edwards. He provides an alternative to Jalen who is more speed and skill based while also being the much better defender.
I just mentioned it purely for the standing reach, it really isn’t as bad as you like to make it out to be, he’s not SUPER UNDERSIZED like you love to spout. Keep pushing the SG narrative doe, Yule C. OK???
So you compared Cam to the standing reach of a point guard to show he won't be undersized at small forward? How does that even make sense in your head? You are the one with the narrative so I'm not surprised if you're the one who said "super undersized" then blame it on me.
Again, you keep pointing at “my head” when we both know Amen is freaky big for a PG and no where near the league average. Amen being an outlier has nothing to do with Cam being “undersized.” The comparison was just to illustrate that they both have about the same standing reach at the same height - Amen is supersized for his position and Cam is average - and this is despite Amen having a longer WINGSPAN. Hell, next you’ll say we should just play Cam at the 1 - that way he can just “bully all the PGs!” p.s. - extremely disappointed you quit using your signature “OK???”
So what if Amen is big for a point guard? Your argument is Cam is average for a small forward right? So why don't you compare him to small forwards instead of others at a different position? We got lots of forwards on our team, how is Cam's height of 6'5.75 and arm length vs Tari Eason and Dillon Brooks and Jabari Smith? Also you are the one with the "ok" signature as seen in your posts. You have this nasty habit to make up **** and then insist others are the one who said it not you. Let me guess you're the only one who said Cam is "super undersized" right? So you make up your own arguments then pretend others are the one who said it? LOL wtf.
I was mocking you for putting OK in your posts, just look and see who started posting with OK. To freaking turn it around to me is just in line with the rest of your behavior.
https://bbs.clutchfans.net/threads/...more-f-villanova.320128/page-44#post-14737607 You were first for all to see. Must be fun to mock yourself??? OK???
Can someone help me understand the logic behind this. This Sam Vecenie guy has a predraft big board (which unless I am mistaken means who you think has the most potential in the future) with Cam at #3 and Amen at #5. Then the summer league happens and Amen plays 30 minutes and plays well then sprains his ankle, while Cam plays well enough to get Summer League MVP and played his first game at age 18. The above is then enough to place Amen above not only Cam, Green, Sengun, and Jabari? 03. Cam Whitmore W | Villanova | Birthdate: July 8, 2004 (Age: 18) | 6-6 | 230 LBS | Hometown: Odenton, Md. STRENGTHS Elite intersection of size, frame, athleticism and power. I think his athleticism has been underrated through the process. Mixes that with very real body control and balance. Whitmore is 6-foot-6 without shoes with a near 6-foot-9 wingspan and a powerful 235-pound build. He has a strong near 8-foot-8 standing reach. But beyond that, he is very explosive. Not quite the overall athlete Anthony Edwards is in terms of fluidity and ability to flip his hips but is in his ballpark in terms of power generation and explosiveness. Has a good first step despite being 235 pounds. Very real bounce. Can jump off one foot or two and finish high above the rim. Very powerful and has real burst in transition. Creates transition opportunities and finishes those chances. But he’s also a real half-court dunking threat. Threw down some monster ones. The important thing, though, is that he combines all of this with power and huge hands. Has great contact balance. Hard to knock him off his spot. Drives through rim protectors at the basket and is a really impressive contested rebounder because of this combination. Villanova would often run through a set to get him on either the left or the right wing. If he was on the left wing, he’d often drive baseline and try to beat the rim protector to the spot. Has long strides when he’s not playing off two feet. Loves the rip through (particularly a stutter rip). Love him when he catches on the wing on an empty side and just attacks. Will beat you to the rim most times. Very comfortable dribbling and attacking with his left hand. If he was on the right side, he would often take a middle ball screen and try to get downhill for a finish in the lane. If you try to get in front of him and don’t have enough strength through your base and lower half, he will just move through you on his way to the rim. Powerful and on-balance as a driver, largely because of how smart he is playing off two feet. He has an enormous jump stop move to change the angle on defenders. He initiates contact and is willing to go through you. Center of gravity is strong and doesn’t get thrown off by contact. Also has this strange ability to contort his body at weird angles and still finish through below the rim. Uses that body-control aspect exceptionally well to create angles and find his way around bigs, both on the ground and when already in the air. If you cut him off and he must pick up his dribble within 8 or so feet, he has a developing batch of step-through moves and pivots to use his strides and strength to get to the basket. He’s also a sharp cutter. Goes decisively and gets downhill quickly, particularly when cutting from the baseline. Seems to really time them well for when the help and the double-teams come and will get above the rim to finish here. Made 64.2 percent of his attempts at the rim in half-court settings, a very high percentage for a wing creator. Finishes with both hands. Whitmore’s handle is quite good, particularly when trying to get to his stepback. Has a large bag of tricks. Good change of pace that is also mixed with all sorts of nasty crossovers. Seems to have real rhythm, with the ability to decelerate and quickly accelerate into new moves. Doesn’t pick up his dribble. He’s patient and willing to see what develops then attack it. If you make one mistake defensively in terms of your weight distribution, there isn’t much room for error because Whitmore can get around you or go through you. He also has a nasty stepback game off the bounce. Made 19 3s off the dribble this past season, and some of those reps left evaluators with their jaws on the floor in terms of his ability to create that necessary separation from his man then load into a perfect-looking pull-up. Will string together multiple moves out on the perimeter including quick-succession crossovers to get his man off-balance leaning to Whitmore’s right, then will drill a stepback to his left. Loves the hop step after completing these moves to get his rhythm and balance toward the rim. I buy the jumper long term. He didn’t take a ton of catch-and-shoot 3s because his role was more attack-oriented at Villanova, but he made 40 percent of his looks there and has real touch. Makes tend to be very pure. Might struggle a bit early on from the NBA line. There’s a lot of wrist involved with the shot. Takes them off the hop, which is good, but can occasionally have a slight pause at the top of his mechanics. A bit of a slower release. When the rhythm is clean, the shot looks clean. It’s all about repping it out so that those reps become the norm off the catch. Will be easy to work through long term, but all of this might limit him to being more of a spot-up 3-point shooter as opposed to a movement catch-and-shoot threat – especially early. But he can hit relocation 3s when someone closes him out heavily, combining the pull-up flashes with the catch-and-shoot threat. I also think Whitmore has some real on-ball defensive upside. Has quick, strong, disruptive hands. Averaged 1.4 steals. His intersection of quickness and power gives him real switchability in cross-matches and scramble situations. Really hard to go through him when he gets his chest squared up to the ballhandler. Has the length to contest shots. I think he’ll have some success switching one through four in the NBA in terms of his tools. Can also three-quarter the post while maintaining his spot, using his length to contest entry passes. As an on-ball defender, it will all be about effort for Whitmore. This past season at Villanova, he had some rough moments, but it was mostly positive. Has all the tools to be great at it if he wants to be. SUMMARY Whitmore is a pure upside play. If you buy into the flashes he showed at Villanova and think he has potential to be a 25-pointper-game scorer, you should take him in the top five, passing and decision-making be damned. His athletic upside is elite even by NBA standards. I think he’s going to put even the best athletes in the world behind the eight ball when it comes to his explosiveness and power combination. He’ll excel in transition, and the opened-up driving lanes of the NBA court should favor him even more when he has better shooters and floor spacers around him. Look at the way the Pacers’ Bennedict Mathurin thrived in that regard this past season. Ultimately, I do tend to fall into this camp when it comes to Whitmore. If I’m drafting in the top five, I am doing so to find the player who can make a real difference for me moving up the standings. If Whitmore hits, he can be that. But the way he plays currently is a real flaw, and you’ll need to do some real work to fix that over the course of the next couple of seasons. I’m a buyer on the talent because of the way he can collapse defenses. But it’s all on Whitmore to decide that he wants to be a part of winning basketball teams that move the ball and play unselfishly 05. Amen Thompson G | Overtime Elite | Birthdate: Jan. 30, 2003 (Age: 20) | 6-6 | 215 LBS | Hometown: Fort Lauderdale, Fla. etc. So... 30 minutes in summer league and Cam is under Amen after writing all of this??
Yeah I was quite perplexed by it all too. IIRC, he had Cam, Miller, and Amen all really close grade wise (like 94, 93.5, and 93), and those were general grades vs fits (Sam seemed to prefer Amen in HOU over Cam IIRC, though he kinda said things both ways at times too). Also all of this was before Sam got the intel that other NBA teams did about his full medicals and other issues I believe, and I think Sam said something about that would have pushed Cam to like 5 or 6 on his board if he knew about it when he did the draft guide (or something like that). That said, he still *really* liked Cam overall, and he seemed to gloat a bit about Cam getting SL MVP (as he had Cam higher than others). For Amen, I guess he generally liked him, though yeah I got the impression he was *very* impressed by Amen's *single* mid-range floater. I'm a huge Amen fan (check my post history), but I feel like Sam seemed much more impressed than I was with Amen's floater/game. He's way smarter than me, but seems odd if he did somewhat significantly increase his ranking of Amen based on that single summer league game. On the flip side, IIRC he didn't seem *super* impressed by Ausar (well he was impressed but more "he did what I thought" vs "wow I didn't expect that"), so I'd think a lot of the things that impressed us Rockets fans (athleticism, feel, competitiveness, etc) might not have factored in as much for him? The weird thing is that yeah Sam has Cam 5th of those 5 names. And based on a later Tweet where he said something like "Tari wouldn't be last in that list" if he was included, guess that means Cam is 6th (if you include Tari). Assuming Sam still thinks very highly of Cam (which I think he does?), that means we have 6 guys that could be that kind of prospect? I'm a huge Rockets homer, so I'll take it, but that seems a bit too optimistic for these guys (especially since Sam kinda hit Sengun hard on his defense in the same podcast). In reality, I think the best explanation is....Sam just said this off the cuff (as that was the design of these segments), and he might not have fully thought through what he was saying. Unlike the draft guide and other things, he didn't really have time to research or plan out what he'd say, so maybe I'm/we're just overanalyzing his exact words with this fun thought experiment. And you can probably remove the word "maybe" from that last sentence.
