2020 - Going Forward: A discussion about the Rockets Small and Power Forwards

Can't IHart shoot threes?? Its weird he's not shooting them now

 

I'm not worried about defense against the Laker. Their big lineup will have to deal with ISO island just like the Pelicans did with Cousins and AD. I also think Cap, PJ and Harden can cover their bigs pretty easily. The main issue is that PJ is a pretty poor rebounder as a 4 also. So we will only Capela fight for short rebounds against 3 above average to elite rebounders in AD, Howard, and Lebron.

 

When healthy though he's definitely better. In the same way you'd rather have Steph Curry than Tony Allen (obviously hyperbole, but you get the idea).

People latch on to these glue guys as if they're irreplaceable. I'd move Tucker to get a better piece no question. And I'm a huge Tucker fan... just like I always liked Chuckwagon, Battier, Ariza, etc.

As for this thread...

http://bbs.clutchfans.net/index.php?threads/our-forwards.289554/

2+ years ago, and the position has only gotten worse.

Not sure there's an answer... should have drafted a Capela-esque quality player as a forward. Not easy, but something DM has been able to do on and off. But not without picks...

 

anyone would move PJ for a no brainer better piece but the problem is you have to be realistic. You're not getting a star stretch big for him that does everything he does in his role. so at the end of the day he's by far the best fit at what he does especially at his price. The bigger problem is the lack of actual help behind him specifically.

 

Well... that's fair, lol. Anyone would move anyone for a better piece

I definitely didn't get my point across then... which was more specifically in response to Gallinari and bigger picture how people judge "better pieces".

In other words, I'd move Tucker for Gallinari... even with the injury history, if the salaries matched.

At his price, there's probably not a ton of better values, outside of rookie contracts. Montrez is the one that sticks out.

But again, my point was less about specifics of roster formation and contracts, which certainly can be discussed, and more generalized around just how valuable he is.

Or, more to the point, the Rockets just undervalue forwards, and overvalue guards.
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/positional/forward/

This is even more true with an MDA coached team with Harden. Harden plays 35+ mpg, is almost always out there, and can be your PG. MDA can also turn Jeremy Lin into an all-star. I didn't understand the CP3 pickup completely at the time, just like I didn't understand the Westbrook pickup. Except to say... DM just blanket said more great players win, so here's an opportunity for more great players, let's go for it. So he got CP3, then they got pushed into move CP3's contract effectively for what they thought was a better player and contract (given age an health). All done without really considering roster "makeup".

But this is nothing new, so I'm beating a dead horse there.

 

I wouldn't tbh, if I'm valuing balance and the defensive side of the ball. I like Gallo. he's a pretty solid player but defensively he wouldn't be what the rockets needed. now if you accept punting that side of the ball then yeah I'd probably would just prefer Gallo on his ability to score alone.

 

To me it's less about punting one side of the ball, and more about overall roster makeup.

Plus, while I do think Tucker is really good at defense, I also think he's overvalued defensively because (i) the rest of the team isn't that good at defense aside from Clint, and (ii) his height just is what it is.

But again, this goes to overall roster flexibility. Health aside, would they be that much better with Gallinari than Tucker - probably not - since he is a step down defensively and the Rockets are already average defensively. Kind of useless hypothetical arguments anyway I guess, since Tucker can't be traded straight up for him, nor would the Thunder do such a thing. And even if they did, he's a FA this offseason, so his value to the Rockets would really be more about having a contract to trade for something potentially even a better fit, yada yada yada...

 

Tuck fits well because he gives defense, probably our best defender, which we need more of not less. Imagine if all our other guys retain their physical and offensive attributes but then also have PJ's defense.

Gallo is a good player, one can argue who's better but PJ is a better fit.

The other thing about lists, IMHO is not the exact spot a guy is at but the range. One reviewer can say guy X is #6 and guy Y is #7. Another could have it other way around. Coaches and scouters, if we have a top 12 PF, and they can do the job then we're good.

It is like if I need wiring done at my house, any of the top ten electrician in my local area, can do a really good job then I probably don't care if that guy is a # 9 or # 10. Even if folks think Gallo is better (which I don't for defense), it's not like PJ is a significant drop off.

PJ come under fire at times because he's asked to D up other team's PF or whomever their best player is, which he can do but height wise he's really a 3. If ihart can drain three's, I'm intrigued at the front court of PJ, iHart and Capela.

To me it's less about getting rid of PJ as much as getting "another PJ" or grow one of the existing guys into a 2nd PJ.

 

the roster makeup to me is much more of the issue. the rockets are extremely top heavy. the depth behind the immediate core guys specifically, PJ is very much a huge problem

 

Gallo is expensive, older and injury prone. Time for Morey unearth some unpolished gems e.g. Lowery, Dragic, Beverley.

76ers Jonah Bolden - 6'10 with 7'3 wingspan


T-Wolves Keita Bates-Diop - 6'8 with 7'3 wingspan


Kings Harry Giles - 6'10 with 7'3 wingspan


Grizzlies Bruno Caboclo - 6'9 with 7'7 wingspan


Would take any 2 (even 3) of these guys. All should be available for relatively cheap, minor rotation minutes, all under 26, all fit our criteria for length and defense (all have different offensive strengths). Should take only SRP and TPE to acquire each.

 

We have a very expensive backcourt, but again, I'm hearing support comes from unhappy benches.

KLove is always going to be an interest, but it's nearly impossible to afford him without plenty of help. He solves some issues for us though.

Don't count out Twin, Wayne and firesales from NY, DET and ORL.

Teams are frothing over Clint. I don't see how letting him go helps this group.

And, if it isn't clear, don't expect Ne to be back...for awhile, or well, this year.

I'm overly hesitant to say much at this point, but the Rockets are going to be busy, along with Philly and LAL.

XO

 

Codman!

Is Thybulle available?

Is Bolden really on the verge of being waived?

 

I said this all of last season and we're watching it happen this season: rebounding is nowhere near as important as defense. That's a fact, measured directly against wins and losses. Rebounding is a consequence of game play, a sub category of defense and offense. Defense is half the entire production. It's not comparable. We gripe about our rebounding after we're happy with offense and defense but want to make tweaks. To cover up your defense with rebounding is the equivalent of saying "ok let's **** up but keep trying to get the ball back when we do."

We're a decent rebounding team, even if the Lakers are better.

We're a bad defensive team, and the Lakers are good at offense and defense.

I don't know if it's just hatred of LeBron or Lakers, but I feel like lots of us are in denial about how good they are, and how much more likely they are to get the best buyout candidate for the minimum.

 

Morey was at his best when he was finding the under utilized players that the Rockets bring in and give a chance to develop(ex.Kyle Lowery). We are not organization any more but for the position of SF and PF we need to revisit that model and take a chance on players that do things we like and need on the court. On this team with the vets we have I think you can give a guy like Harry Giles a look in good organization by giving up a Nene. The same with a Josh Jackson( he makes to much money for the Rockets to trade for).

You put a Giles behind a PJ Tucker who work hard and doesn't take no BS and let him work with Clint is a Hard worker who keeps mouth shout and plays ball, not to mention Tyson Chandler who has won a chip and could mentor him on mental side of the game. Plus pretty much even one in out division has the versatile big except the Rockets.

OKC - Danillo(not young but can give you buckets)
Memphis- JJJ
Dallas- Luka
N.O.- Zion, Ingram, Hayes ( unique small forwards) Surrounded by Favors and and Reddick
S.A. - nothing
Rockets - House(inconsistent) and PJ(Defense)

 

Appreciate you coming back and posting!