Also, not sure that any of this should surprise anybody in the bullpen... they were actively linked to acquiring closers at the deadline last season, and holding a late-inning lead became a huge need/weakness throughout the stretch drive/playoffs.
Watched some videos of highlights from the playoffs, and the celebrations. So glad ST has started, and there is finally something else to distract me from the Rockets. If you have some time to kill, Full Game: <iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/4iJu-SnFi6A?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Being there for that is one of my favorite moments ever Spoiler Spoilered for size We were one section over from Gomez's HR, I'm actually walking down the aisle watching it come our direction as it happened.
I always assumed, given how Hinch ran the team last year, that the job would be Gregerson's to lose, which makes sense. If he's outplayed, he has no one to blame but himself, a much easier pill to swallow than losing the job to a less experienced player the team *presumes* is better. Keeps locker room harmonious. It wouldn't shock me if the Astros are perfectly content to let Giles be the 8th inning guy; they don't seem like a team too hung up on labels and the idea of dealing with Giles for three outs and then Gregerson is every bit as potentially jarring as the other way around, IMO.
Awesome. I could only imagine. I haven't been to an Astros playoff game since the game before the 18inning game against the Braves(?). That was the best atmosphere I had ever been in. So loud, and damn exciting.
Gregerson is not that much more experienced than Giles at being the full time closer. While they aren't hung up on labels, Luhnow and Hinch both express that bullpen guys tend to thrive when given set roles. Giles has put up better numbers than Gregerson as a 9th inning guy (which would basically be last season... The first time either was a full time closer). He's also put up better numbers than him as an 8th inning guy (looking at the year before). Lastly, Gregerson put up better numbers as an 8th inning guy vs a closer. It's not a presumption to say that Giles is the better pitcher. Numbers wise, makes sense to demote Gregerson. I bet this front office values numbers over feelings. Luke will likely fall in line... He's more valuable in a spot/inning where he has historically put up better numbers.
Gregerson's gotta know that there is a bigger goal in mind. Someone who's been around for as long as he has should know the opportunity he has in front to of him. I am aware of the money he'd be losing, but dudes getting paid 6 million this year. He's not exactly starving to death. /end of rant
I want guys who want to be the closer. You can be selfish in baseball, as long as you don't become a malcontent that starts causing clubhouse issues. Maybe he could have given a more PC cliche response despite his feelings, but it doesn't really matter to me. He may not be happy, he may even secretly want Giles to fail, but as long as he does his job, whatever it is, I'm fine. Like I said, you can be a selfish mercenary in this sport. FWIW Gregerson wasn't the problem last year as others have acknowledged, and if the team for whatever reason decided to go with Giles in the 8th (which I doubt they will do) and Gregerson as the closer I don't think the team would be any worse off. The biggest importance of getting Giles was locking down the 8th, regardless of which guy does it. The reason I think Giles is the closer is because he is now viewed as part of the core who will be around for years, Gregerson is just a hired gun.
Bullpens are dynamic. Injuries happen, effectiveness varies. It is quite possible Giles isn't the closed at some point. That is why depth matters.
Fully agree I was at the Saturday game in September when Gregerson melted down against the Rangers (craziest game i've ever personally attended), he was pissed at being removed and threw a fit. . . . . . .then he came back and dominated his last few games after that in the regular season, closed out the wild card game, and pitched well in the KC series giving up only the solo shot to Gordon in game 3, which he ended up closing out for the save anyway So I don't think this is going to be a Drew Storen situation where he pouts and starts getting shelled. He isn't happy and I don't blame him, but i'm not really worried about how he will perform once we get going
Yeah, he was asked about it on the day he reported to camp (first time I've heard him interviewed about it), if either guy is still b****ing in April then there's a problem. These guys are hyper-competitive or else they wouldn't be there, can't really say he said anything unexpected or wrong. Luhnow & Hinch have gone out of their way to say that the closer situation is still up in the air, since the day they acquired Giles. I'm sure Hinch will have many conversations with both guys as ST progresses. One guy I'm interested to watch this spring is Neshek. It was obvious something was bothering him the last couple of months or so, then it came out he had a foot fracture and bone spur (if you want to know what a 1/2" bone spur looks like, Drellich has a pic on twitter).
Yeah, good point. I imagine the Astros view 7, 8, 9 as a conglomerate and while I think they'll have dedicated roles, I can't see the team having the mindset of "fast = 9th inning." They're too unconventional and progressive to glom onto a relic of Billy Wagner's hey day. And I think Hinch has shown a deft touch with handling the clubhouse thus far; he likely understands the importance of Giles earning the 9th, as opposed to given the 9th. No one should be above competition. Tell Gregerson: you want to be my closer? Outpitch him; earn it. He'll understand that. You're asking these guys to pitch in high-pressure situations; let's create one now and see how it washes out.
As pointed out the last time you brought this up, baseball-reference disagrees with you as Gregerson has four times as many career innings in "save situations." Giles has never pitched, let alone closed for a team expected to win; in a pennant race; and/or in the postseason. That's a lot to put on his plate. I'm glad Gregerson is irked; competition is a good thing. I don't personally care who pitches when as long as the final three innings are on permanent lock down.
Your pitcher should have the same intensity whenever he takes the mound, whether its the 7th, 3rd, or 9th inning. I don't see how that intensity, or a pitcher's preparation, would alter in any way based on his inning. An out is an out, regardless when you get it. I'm not even a fan of using your "closer" in the 9th just because. If the other team has the meat of their order in the 7th or 8th, thats when you should pitch your "closer", IMO. Our "closer" should just be our best bullpen arm. Let Giles and Gregerson duke it out. Nothing should be given to either.
You understand most save situations are not closing opportunities? Gregerson has been a full-time closer for a season. Giles has been a full-time closer for just under half a season. Sure, Gregerson has pitched far more meaningful innings in his career than Giles, but saying Gregerson doesn't have that much more full-time closer experience is very true.
Why is this even an issue? We play six games a week. What is wrong with having two closers? You may face the 3,4,5 hitters in the 8th and have a less dangerous 9th inning to close out the game. Maybe you bring in the power arm in the 8th to face hitters who struggle with 95+ heat. Maybe you bring in the guy more likely to get you a groundball dp in certain situations. Or maybe one guy has thrown 3 days in a row and you'd rather rest him if possible. Not even a problem in my opinion. Astros have two closers now.
Gregerson wasn't a full time closer till last season. The save situations that you reference are his appearances as a late-inning reliever or spot-closer. Additionally, Giles being able to have the same (if not increased) success last year with INFREQUENT appearances (which happens being on a losing team) is impressive. People also are under the presumption that last year was Giles' first go-around... where in fact he's been pitching in the big leagues since 2014 (at an elite level throughout, mind you). EDIT: I see JS already beat me to the punch.
Sounds great in theory... but bullpen guys tend to want to know exactly when they're going to pitch, and they welcome consistency. Luhnow/Hinch have said as much. I expect them to do some shuffling/experimenting early in the season (much like they did last year)... and once they find the combination that works best, they'll stick with it.
I don't believe there's a tremendous difference. If *your* role is to "close" the 8th inning, why is that deemed a less pressure-filled situation? Your career is on the line and runs in the 8th inning count as much as runs in the 9th... Gregerson has 50 career saves; Giles 16. And Gregerson has pitched in ~ 360 more ML innings, all as a reliever. To say Gregerson is not that much more experienced as closer is semantics. Gregerson is infinitely more experienced in late inning, Major League situations than Ken Giles.
Personally, I agree with you in theory Problem is, 8th inning "closers" don't get paid nearly as much as 9th inning closers Sportscenter doesn't show 8th inning "closers" shutting the door every night like they do 9th inning closers Think Crane will pay Luke that 500K bonus (or whatever it is) in his contract for closing a certain number of games, if he just closes the 8th inning instead of the 9th? In the perfect world you are absolutely right, everyone would just fill the role they are given...a large number of professional athletes aren't wired that way though Having said that, I still don't think this ends up being a problem. Luke is a guy who has spent a lot of his career pitching before the 9th inning, and as I mentioned in an earlier post he has been pissed about stuff before, and then just went out and pitched great
