2008 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION: Obama (D-IL) vs. McCain (R-AZ)

El_Conquistador · Jun 4, 2008

There is a big push today to get Hillary on the ballot as an Independent in several key states...

...more to come as things unfold

Refman · Jun 4, 2008

justtxyank said:

Where do you live Ref? I work in the insurance industry and I can promise you that the average rate for a single person, let alone a family, is more than $2500 a year.

Of course, most employers subsidize most if not all of the employee cost.
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That last part of your post....BINGO!!!!!!!!! There's the difference.

Refman · Jun 4, 2008

Trader_Jorge said:

Face facts, libs. Obama is simply not qualified to be President. He's not. The only reason he is even in the race is because 1) He's not Hillary and 2) He's not a Republican. He has no qualifications. No experience. Horrible instincts. He has ties to very racist individuals and very destructive individuals.

Contrast that to McCain who has served our nation with honor for his entire adult life. A true American Hero.
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I agree with you on McCain. The problem is that it does not matter why Obama has gotten the nomination. He is the nominee. As such, he must be taken seriously. There are a lot of Americans that adore him.

To simply dismiss him as not being qualified is silly. The only qualifications that matter are those in the Constitution, and by that metric he is qualified. The only other thing that matters is how many votes he will get. He'll get a lot of votes. Whether or not he beats McCain remains to be seen. He is a formidable opponent for Senator McCain.

LongTimeFan · Jun 4, 2008

Refman said:

I think a lot of people believe that Obama will also say something different should he take office. It is what that something will be that scares them.
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But aren't you essentially not voting for Obama because he might say something different, and voting for McCain hoping he'll say something different?

Nice Rollin · Jun 4, 2008

Trader_Jorge said:

Ignore what? He has no accomplishments. Name one. You can't.
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look what your acomplished Bush has done...

El_Conquistador · Jun 4, 2008

Nice Rollin said:

look what your acomplished Bush has done...
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So you are saying Bush is the Standard for Presidential qualifications? And Obama is Bush's equal in that respect? What does that tell you? Obama = Bush?

rrj_gamz · Jun 4, 2008

I really want people informed about our country and to make the best decisions for our country...Problem is that won't happen...It's a popularity contest and it won't be about the issues...sad but true...

Nice Rollin · Jun 4, 2008

i guess Negrodaumus was wrong

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rhadamanthus · Jun 5, 2008

http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/06/mccain-id-spy-o.html

Ol' flip flopper mccain makes another 180. This guy is a twit.

If elected president, Senator John McCain would reserve the right to run his own warrantless wiretapping program against Americans, based on the theory that the president's wartime powers trump federal criminal statutes and court oversight, according to a statement released by his campaign Monday.

McCain's new tack towards the Bush administration's theory of executive power comes some 10 days after a McCain surrogate stated, incorrectly it seems, that the senator wanted hearings into telecom companies' cooperation with President Bush's warrantless wiretapping program, before he'd support giving those companies retroactive legal immunity.

As first reported by Threat Level, Chuck Fish, a full-time lawyer for the McCain campaign, also said McCain wanted stricter rules on how the nation's telecoms work with U.S. spy agencies, and expected those companies to apologize for any lawbreaking before winning amnesty.

But Monday, McCain adviser Doug Holtz-Eakin, speaking for the campaign, disavowed those statements, and for the first time cast McCain's views on warrantless wiretapping as identical to Bush's.

Neither the Administration nor the telecoms need apologize for actions that most people, except for the ACLU and the trial lawyers, understand were Constitutional and appropriate in the wake of the attacks on September 11, 2001. [...]

We do not know what lies ahead in our nation’s fight against radical Islamic extremists, but John McCain will do everything he can to protect Americans from such threats, including asking the telecoms for appropriate assistance to collect intelligence against foreign threats to the United States as authorized by Article II of the Constitution.

The Article II citation is key, since it refers to President Bush's longstanding arguments that the president has nearly unlimited powers during a time of war. The administration's analysis went so far as to say the Fourth Amendment did not apply inside the United States in the fight against terrorism, in one legal opinion from 2001.

McCain's new position plainly contradicts statements he made in a December 20, 2007 interview with the Boston Globe where he implicitly criticized Bush's five-year secret end-run around the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act.

"I think that presidents have the obligation to obey and enforce laws that are passed by Congress and signed into law by the president, no matter what the situation is," McCain said.

The Globe's Charlie Savage pushed further, asking , "So is that a no, in other words, federal statute trumps inherent power in that case, warrantless surveillance?" To which McCain answered, "I don't think the president has the right to disobey any law."

McCain's embrace of extrajudicial domestic wiretapping is effectively a bounce-back from Fish's comments, made at the Computers, Freedom and Privacy conference in Connecticut last month. When liberal blogs picked up the story that McCain had moved to the left on wiretapping, the McCain campaign issued a letter insisting that he still supported unconditional immunity, as well as new rules that would expand the nation's spy powers.

The campaign's response was consistent with McCain's past positions and votes. But it riled Andrew McCarthy at the conservative National Review Online, who read the campaign's position as a disavowal of Bush's warrantless wiretapping program, and a wimpy surrender of executive power to Congress.

"What does it mean when he says Sen. McCain does not want the telecoms put into this position again?" McCarthy asked. "Is he saying that in a time of national crisis, the president should not be permitted to ask the telecoms for assistance that is arguably beyond what is prescribed in a statute?"

That's when the campaign issued the letter explaining McCain's new views of executive power, and revealing that McCain would, in certain future circumstances, rely on the same theory of executive power in wartime.

A spokesperson for McCain's camp did not respond to a request Monday for an explanation of the difference between the new policy and the December interview.
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Salon has an even better writeup.

GuerillaBlack · Jun 5, 2008

In a national electoral poll/map, Obama is comfortably ahead of McCain:

http://electoral-vote.com/

Obama: 287
McCain: 227
Ties: 24

El_Conquistador · Jun 5, 2008

Would love to see the flawed polls that show Ohio, Virginia, Indiana and Missouri NOT going to McCain. Switch those as they should read and McCain is your winner.

GuerillaBlack · Jun 5, 2008

Trader_Jorge said:

Would love to see the flawed polls that show Ohio, Virginia, Indiana and Missouri NOT going to McCain. Switch those as they should read and McCain is your winner.
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Flawed polls?

Anyway, I don't even think Texas is sure McCain. Texas has been voting Republican only since GHWB. With Obama, and hopefully strong help with Clinton campaigning for him, I think Latinos and Blacks will come out in droves in Texas.

And look at this:

mc mark · Jun 5, 2008

GuerillaBlack said:

In a national electoral poll/map, Obama is comfortably ahead of McCain:

http://electoral-vote.com/

Obama: 287
McCain: 227
Ties: 24

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Obama says that NC, GA, KS, ID, UT, WY are all in play

hell even AZ could go Dem

TIDAL WAVE!!!!!!!

Refman · Jun 5, 2008

mc mark said:

Obama says that NC, GA, KS, ID, UT, WY are all in play

hell even AZ could go Dem

TIDAL WAVE!!!!!!!
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Wow....that would be the first time that a Presidential candidate didn't win their home state since....

AL GORE

Achilleus · Jun 5, 2008

McCain, Ohio, NAFTA...

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mc mark · Jun 5, 2008

Refman said:

Wow....that would be the first time that a Presidential candidate didn't win their home state since....

AL GORE
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You don't have to rub it in!

Refman · Jun 5, 2008

mc mark said:

You don't have to rub it in!
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I just couldn't resist it.

rimrocker · Jun 5, 2008

Trader_Jorge said:

Would love to see the flawed polls that show Ohio, Virginia, Indiana and Missouri NOT going to McCain. Switch those as they should read and McCain is your winner.
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HA! Keep fighting the same war TJ!

All you have to do is click on the link GB provided.

rimrocker · Jun 5, 2008

Another EV analysis...

First thoughts: Obama's wider map
Posted: Thursday, June 05, 2008 9:28 AM by Mark Murray
Filed Under: First Thoughts
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/06/05/1115257.aspx

From Chuck Todd, Mark Murray, and Domenico Montanaro
*** Obama’s wider map: About two months ago, we unveiled our early look at the electoral map. And this being the second official day of the general election, now's as good a time as any to see where we stand in the McCain vs. Obama race.

Base Obama: CA, CT, DE, DC, HI, IL, MD, MA, NY, RI, VT (153 electoral votes)
Lean Obama: ME, NJ, MN, OR, WA (47 votes)
Toss-up: CO, FL, IA, MI, NV, NM, NH, OH, PA, VA, WI (138 votes)
Lean McCain: AR, GA, IN, LA, MS, MO, MT, NE, NC, ND (84 votes)
Base McCain: AL, AK, AZ, ID, KS, KY, OK, SC, SD, TN, TX, UT, WV, WY (116 votes)

While both McCain and Obama get to 200 when adding up their base and lean states, it’s clear to see that Obama has an early edge with the map. Not only does he have a stronger base than McCain does (153 votes vs. 116), but he also has more potential pick-up opportunities. When you add toss-up and “Lean McCain,” Obama has the potential for another 222 votes outside his favored states. By comparison, McCain’s toss-up and “Lean Obama” comes to 185. Of course, potential sometimes means just that -- potential. At the end of the day, Obama will likely win few, if any, of those Lean McCain states. But his reach right now seems much longer than McCain’s.
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rimrocker · Jun 5, 2008

Trader_Jorge said:

There is a big push today to get Hillary on the ballot as an Independent in several key states...

...more to come as things unfold
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That's interesting. Did you read her email to supporters? Specifically, this passage...

Hillary said:

On Saturday, I will extend my congratulations to Senator Obama and my support for his candidacy. This has been a long and hard-fought campaign, but as I have always said, my differences with Senator Obama are small compared to the differences we have with Senator McCain and the Republicans.

I have said throughout the campaign that I would strongly support Senator Obama if he were the Democratic Party's nominee, and I intend to deliver on that promise.
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2008 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION: Obama (D-IL) vs. McCain (R-AZ)

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2008 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION: Obama (D-IL) vs. McCain (R-AZ)

El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking Supporting Member

Refman Contributing Member

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El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking
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