180lb dude that's in great shape VS a 125lb (flyweight) professional MMA fighter: Who wins?

If the FlyWeight is like 60 . . .with a hip replacement
.. . . he might have a chance

Experience and training can trump most natural skill.

Think of it as that 6'9 guy that walks into the pick up game
but he cannot dunk on the move, cannot pass and cannot shoot. He basically
just sits by the basket and try to shoot layup.

5'3 guy with skillz will torch him on the court

Same here

there would need to be significant disadvantages to the Trained fight . . . beyond height and weight

Rocket River

 

The key part is "TRAINED TO FIGHT". True fight skill beats non-trained bigger size. Only if its some FAR extreme size & strength difference will novice/non-fighter have a chance. Knowing technique means THAT much.

PROFESSIONAL FIGHTER, its not even a contest against NON-Fighter. Even an amateur flyweight fighter with 1 year experience will take bigger non-fighter. A pro MMA WOMAN middleweight will beat regular strong guy.

 

I could take all y'all especially with pen15clubber at my side

 

Jesus Chavez, who once fought Mayweather, knocked down a heavyweight journeyman boxer, who was also the US kickboxing champ, 3 times in about a minute at a boxing gym in Austin. It wasn't even funny how bad the beating was. That being said, if the heavyweight would have landed a blow, it would have been very dangerous for Chavez. That is why Richard Lord stopped the sparring round as soon as he knew it was taking place.

 

I was going to post exactly this. The Gracies who were fighting in the early days were downright scrawny compared to their opponents. They literally looked half their size. All it took was getting close enough to grab their opponent (usually within thirty seconds) and it was over.

 

this thread reminds me of the time i played basketball against a girl from the mexican national team and she kicked our asses.

 

I was at the Kung Fu Panda opening day and a dojo master who was about 8 inches shorter than me and 90 pounds less showed me some Jiu Jitsu tricks... He had me on the ground nearly crying in about 2 seconds.

 

More interesting argument is a world class boxer vs a world class MMA fighter, same size, each with 1 month of training in defense against the other style.

I take boxer.

 

It depends on the rules of the fight. If kicks, elbows, knees, and submissions are allowed I still give the edge to the MMA fighter. If it's only strikes, then I'd say the boxer.

You can't just put this stuff in a vacuum.

 

Me too because boxers have been fighters for a longer time and since boxing attracts more money, it attracts the elite athletes.

 

MMA rules.

I don't think the hand speed and punching power of a boxer would allow the MMA guy to get close enough to grapple.

 

How many boxers become good after starting late in life. Maybe deonte wilder, but in most cases they started as kids. MMA guys can start later in life and still do ok.

 

The core beginnings of martial arts was to allow the weak practices to defend themselves. That includes children, untrained women and the elderly.

In a street fight the mma guy almost always wins.

Regardless of size, boxer guy has to be quicker to avoid strikes to joints and legs or it's game over.

 

How about not even fighting a pro and having a 100 pound weight advantage?

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We are not debating about styles, because always better to have more options. We are debating about putting someone like Mayweather or Klitschko against a UFC champion after a few months of training. Mayweather and Klitschko's speed and power would overwhelm any current UFC fighter.

I've done mma, bjj, and boxing. The fact is that boxers are generally better athletes and are much better athletes at the elite level. You can't be totally useless on the ground, but you can teach a striker to defend himself from take-downs in a pretty short period of time. Just watch McGregor and Cung Le fight and will see that it's not that easy to take an athletic striker to the ground who is prepared for it.

Another example of a top athlete overwhelming at typical MMA fighter. This time a strongman competitor who is proficient at fighting.

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I don't know if Rolles Gracie is your typical MMA fighter. He's just another BJJ guy who is pretty bad at MMA.

If you are talking about elite vs elite can a elite boxer stop a takedown from someone like GSP for example. I'm not so sure

 

The reality with boxers is they are designed to be taken down easily.

They are designed perfectly to compete within the rules of boxing but nontheless designed for easy takedowns. The way they stand, the angles they use, the reliance on a clinch in close quarters and the way they position their bodies in that clinch, the dispersement of weight in their legs and the leverage .. great to score points and land in a boxing match but it screams open and easy takedown

an MMA fighter who's main base is wrestling will destroy a boxer. The years and years of techniques and instincts built to compete in boxing is so disadvantageous to stay on the feet.

It's harder to take down some Joe off the streets that is in extremely great shape than it is to take down someone that has trained boxing to the point that they instinctively stand and move like a boxer.



Now if a boxer trains wrestling for months.. for one.. they wouldn't stand or move anything like a boxer.. and for two they would have an advantage because they will still have crisp punching technique and pop.

 

This is like saying you could train a freestyle skier for a few months and they would beat a slalom skier because the freestyler is more athletic. Boxing and MMA are similar because you through strikes, but beyond that they are completely different sports.

 

I'm always amazed when there are professional fighters who are 125 lbs. That's what my 12 year old weighs and he's only average size in his class. I can't imagine someone so small winning a fight against a grown man.

 

With all of these type of discussions you have to consider several variables. First off are we talking about a UFC type of match with UFC rules or an all out street fight? Just limitig it to a UFC type match then the edge will overwhelmingly be on the MMA fighter because they are trained in that type of environment no how to work it to their advantages. Skill and training can make up for a lot and as someone who has been smaller fighter you can neutralize a lot against larger and stronger opponents with good technique. Further many of the techniques of Judo and Jujitsu are specifically intended to work against strength. A fairly common occurence in Judo is to see smaller experienced Judoka defeating larger and stronger beginners. It's not much different than when you see a crafty veteran bball player schooling younger players who are taller, stronger and faster.

If we're talking a street fight I still would give the advantage to the professional fighter but not as overwhelming as it could be. MMA isn't a street fight and in a complete all out brawl there are situations where training can work against you. For example if I have great guard play how would that work fighting on a street on rough concrete with broken glass or other stuff on the ground. Also I'm not going to be one of those martial artists who say that size and strength doesn't matter. I can tell you as someone who has been a smaller competitor it certainly does matter. Mike Tyson once said that "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face." There is still always the factor of dumb luck and larger and stronger but unskilled opponent could still get one good shot in that lays out the black belt. It doesn't matter if you have the best triangle choke in the world if you get knocked out hitting your head on the concrete after getting nailed by a haymaker.