Bravo SamCassell. There are exactly three explanations for the disparities among income distribution and crime for minorities. 1. Minorities are genetically inferior - this has been completely repudiated by geneticists. 2. Minority culture is somehow inferior - this is repudiated by the fact that poor whites are also statistically disadvantaged 3. Opportunites are more available for people who start in an advantaged position. I think #3 is the only hypothesis that is remotely logical in light of those statistics and the other options. ------------------ Clutchcity.net... source for all your Rockets, Astros, political, music, humor, and Gordita news.
What EXACTLY does being liberal mean? I think I'm conservative on somethings and liberal on others. For Instance, does me being Against Abortion make me conservative? how so? What is being conserved? I don't get that. . . . Any who the idea is that SOME changes are good. SOME are not. . . The reason being. . . some of the old liberal ideas that sucked. . . well you don't hear much about them becuase 1. they sucked or 2. They were tried and failed miserible NOT ALL CHANGE IS GOOD Rocket River Biological Warfare was a change i could do without ------------------
haven: Though you try to here, I don't (and don't think you really do either) equate conservatism with stagnation. Some change is good; I disclaimed a return to the 1950s didn't I?!! Sam: every day of every week, people from deprived backgrounds of all sorts make good, productive, proactive choices. Likewise, every day of every week, people from privileged backgrounds make bad, unproductive, destructive choices. The power and the victory is in the choice not the excuse. There is ALWAYS a choice whether rich or poor, educated or uneducated, directed or aimless. Of course, sometimes it's easier than other times. As Rocket River points out, these labels are very limiting. I would imagine that we are all for some progress and against other progress, which of course really makes us all moderates! ------------------ "How far you go in life depends on you being tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving and tolerant of the weak. Because someday you will have been all of these." [This message has been edited by RichRocket (edited July 31, 2001).]
Nice-- you guys are using the word "liberal" as though its current political convention had anything to do with its classic meaning. Societies have become more liberal in the past, so that means that in the future, all of our current left-leaning, "liberal" political orthodoxies will be thought of as not only correct, but a foregone conclusion! Hilarious. You might want to consider what "liberal" meant in the historic sense of the word, versus what it refers to now-- and ask yourself if you think contextual liberals like George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Alexander Hamilton, and Thomas Paine would identify themselves as such given the word's current meaning. On second thought, you probably wouldn't want to do that.
I think people will look back and shake their heads at the thought that people sat in front of an eye damaging monitor and gave themselves carpal tunnel "conversing" for hours with people the've never seen when outside of their houses, within a fifty mile radius, live three or four million people they could easily just go out and shake hands with. Either that, or two party democratic political systems. ------------------ stop posting my damn signature
That's not true. Imagine the kid growing up in an extremely negative environment - criminal, deprived, whatever. With parents raising him with no belief there is anything else, or the hope that he can achieve anything more. Falling into the same lifestyle would be easy. And the cycle continues. Not to comment on your other points. I just disagreed with this statement. ------------------ Homer: "Hey, what's that guy hooked to?" Nurse: "A respirator. It breathes for him." Homer: "And here I am using my own lungs like a sucker!"
Rokkit: You write "Falling into the same lifestyle would be easy..." Notice you said easy, not automatic or fated or irresistable. Even when trying to disagreee with me, you still recognize the element of choice that is everpresent. Of course it is harder for some but choice is still always available. If not, how would ANYBODY from dire circumstance make it out of those circumstance... and how would anyone from privilege fail or disappoint? Both of those things happen on a regular basis. ------------------ "How far you go in life depends on you being tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving and tolerant of the weak. Because someday you will have been all of these."
I do disagree with you, Rich. I'm not 'trying'. It could be you're trying to use your own perception of my words to prove your point. I offer that when you are raised in a certain environment/with certain beliefs, combined with the lack of education throughout the formative years to realize others don't follow those same guidelines, that person does not recognize any 'choice' - for them, there is none. And while it's easy for you and me to sit back and say 'well, why don't you just make yourself better', that's from our point of view. And it doesn't apply to EVERYBODY. ------------------ Homer: "Hey, what's that guy hooked to?" Nurse: "A respirator. It breathes for him." Homer: "And here I am using my own lungs like a sucker!" [This message has been edited by Rokkit (edited August 01, 2001).]
BrianKagy: That's pretty disingenous, since I acknowledged in my own post that what was once "liberal" is now conservative. There's no argument there, at all. What is considered liberal has changed, but I don't think the definition itself has. The most applicable definition in dict.org is: 7. Not bound by orthodox tenets or established forms in political or religious philosophy; independent in opinion; not conservative; friendly to great freedom in the constitution or administration of government; having tendency toward democratic or republican, as distinguished from monarchical or aristocratic, forms; as, liberal thinkers; liberal Christians; the Liberal party. The first sentence is the most important, imo. Being liberal means being open to new ideas that may improve conditions. Or perhaps it means that one recognizes that change is inevitable, and that structures are not permanent. New structures and "tenets" must emerge that function in different times. I don't think Jefferson, etc, would dispute this. So what is liberal has changed, but the meaning of being liberal has been constant. Conservative is the mores obvious of the two ideological poles, since the meaning is immediately obvious in the root. ------------------ Clutchcity.net... source for all your Rockets, Astros, political, music, humor, and Gordita news.
Easy means easy--- not fated. I put no spin on it. It means what it means. There is scads of opportunity and influence regardless of the circumstances of anyone's growing up. Certainly for some it is more difficult. So what! Can't change that. Do your best. ------------------ "How far you go in life depends on you being tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving and tolerant of the weak. Because someday you will have been all of these."
Rich is a privileged whitey...he knows nothing of growing up in the hood. In all seriousness, I think that just about everything that exists now, whether it be physical or cerebral, will obviously show its date. It will all seem sad, limited, and ignorant. I must disagree with Pole, though, and state that I find it unlikely that people will think of the internet in such a way. I think that more technology leads to more and more limited huan contact. If anything, our internet will be ridiculed for its limited reach. I think that over time, humans will get smaller, softer. The people who painted their hunting scenes in Lascaux were shorter than we were. From there, humans grew as they evolved and progressed with varied physical activities. Protein became more important, making the body grow bigger and stronger. Now, machines do so much and will continue to do more. People are less active. I think physicality could be eventually seen as barbaric. Perhaps our minds will one day shed these cumbersome, restrictive odies. Ultimately, who knows. Trying to predict trends and achievements is trying to grasp that which is impossible to comprehend. I don't wan't my brain to explode, so I will refrain from further trauma. Oh yeah...Rich, Haven -- you both are wrong (haha -- because I "know"). You are speaking on different levels and defining different things. Cons/Lib socially, culturally, politically, ethnically, etc...times changes all definitions and cannot be used to claim victory for any "side." ------------------ "Baby, I'm a fine artist and maybe I deserved to be kissed..." [This message has been edited by rimbaud (edited August 01, 2001).] [This message has been edited by rimbaud (edited August 01, 2001).]
Rich is NOT a rich whitey... at least the rich part! Once again, Rimbaud uses that poet's soul to stare down the truth. If not for their choices and the work that goes with making them flourish, how is it that people of all colors escape underprivileged circumstances? BTW, it's not me that's getting into those egghead discussion with haven. That was someone else. ------------------ "How far you go in life depends on you being tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving and tolerant of the weak. Because someday you will have been all of these."
Rich, It was obviously a joke. Also, just because I said privileged does not mean "rich" in that sense. And you are Rich...just not in the sense that has anything to do with this discussion. ------------------ "Baby, I'm a fine artist and maybe I deserved to be kissed..." [This message has been edited by rimbaud (edited August 01, 2001).]
From Star Trek IV: Bones: "What's the matter with you?" Old Woman Hospital Patient: "Dialasys." Bones: "Dialasys? What is this, the dark ages?" ------------------ Who's your buddy? Who's your pal? I am, aren't I?
Rimmy: I was quite sure that your use of "privileged" contrasted with "the hood" had a certain association with financial well-being. I guess you meant contentment of the mind and a peaceful spirit, huh? ------------------ "How far you go in life depends on you being tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving and tolerant of the weak. Because someday you will have been all of these."
No, Rich, I meant societal, racial, community richness. Has nothing to do with monetary wealth. ------------------ "Baby, I'm a fine artist and maybe I deserved to be kissed..."
