1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Chron: Vin Baker's latest battle: more playing time

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Rockets34Legend, Mar 8, 2005.

  1. Rockets34Legend

    Rockets34Legend Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2002
    Messages:
    20,714
    Likes Received:
    15,563
    http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/3073777

    Bouts with alcohol, despair give ex-All-Star perspective, but he longs for action
    By JONATHAN FEIGEN
    Copyright 2005 Houston Chronicle

    SEATTLE - If Vin Baker pretended he was comfortable sitting and watching, he would be lying. He has done enough of that over the years.

    For all he has been through, all he has given up in a career that gave him so much, Baker has not changed in every respect. Part of Baker, once an All-Star and an Olympian back when U.S. Olympians were still called Dream Teamers and came home wearing gold medals, is still itching to get back on the court with the ball in his large, soft hands.

    He is different, though. That's what he keeps hearing. He looks different. Thinner. Younger. The puffiness in his face is gone. A smile has replaced the scowl.

    He thinks differently, too. Now with the Rockets, Baker yearns to play, but at the same time he knows there are much greater battles to wage than the one with patience.

    Mostly, he lives differently. His fights with depression and alcoholism are not won, only because they never end. But he says he is winning. And after all the issues that have kept him off the court, Baker still knows about winning.

    "There's so many things I've gone through and been able to fight through in my personal life, in my professional life, it's easy to have perspective," Baker said. "But at the same time, I want to be on the floor. When I leave the court, leave the gym every day, I look at my averages and say, 'Gosh, how did I get here?' "


    Origin of decline
    If Baker could forget how he went from front and center to the end of the Rockets' bench — and he can't — he'd get a reminder tonight. Though he left Seattle after the 2001-02 season, he has been back just once. He played, coming off the bench. He doesn't really remember much about the game.

    But he said visiting Seattle tonight would be special — and not for the reasons players usually find in games against their former teams.

    It all happened here, the best and worst of his career. Baker was an All-Star forward with the Bucks from 1995-97. Then, after he was traded to the SuperSonics, he moved up to All-NBA second team in 1998.

    In 1999, he began binge drinking and started to fall into a downward spiral.

    When Baker was traded from the Sonics to the Celtics in July 2002, the thinking was that a return to the East Coast (he had played collegiately at Hartford) and the support of his family would help. But his two seasons in Boston were filled with alcohol dependency and emotional breakdowns. Baker broke down in tears on the bench and in a practice. He checked into Silver Hill Hospital in Connecticut for rehabilitation, but soon after his return to the Celtics, he began drinking again.

    When Boston voided his contract in February 2004, Baker filed a grievance, reaching a settlement under which the Celtics will pay him $5.3 million for three seasons.

    The Knicks signed Baker that March and again last summer. In explaining their willingness to give Baker another chance, New York president Isiah Thomas cited his brother's alcoholism, and team CEO James Dolan spoke of his alcohol dependency.

    Baker cried at the news conference. When he got to Houston, he could not stop smiling.

    "I have been through some things," Baker said. "I went through alcoholism for a while. I got down on myself. There are 18 million Americans that have been through it. But I've been through rehabilitation. I attend meetings. Those are things I work on constantly in my personal life that get me prepared to come play every day."

    Asked how long he has remained sober, Baker said: "One day. I don't count. We learn that every day you start over."

    He has also learned that success in that arena is greater, more vital. But it does not seem to satisfy completely. Seattle is a reminder not just of where his career went wrong but of the kind of player he once was.

    "When he was at his best, he was a hard cover one-on-one inside," Rockets coach Jeff Van Gundy said. "He had explosive athletic ability, high release, good hands, was a very good rebounder. A very hard guy to guard. He can't be what he was in his prime. That doesn't mean he can't be effective. It's been a long time. How much is left? He believes a lot. I don't know."

    Like a rookie again

    As far removed as Baker seems from that prime — he averaged as many as 21.1 points and 10.3 rebounds per game for a season — it really wasn't that long ago.

    "It's very difficult," said Baker, who scored two points in his only game as a Rocket so far after averaging 1.4 in 24 games with the Knicks this season. "In your mind and in your heart, you feel like you're the player you were, that you could do some things on the floor. That you can help your team, especially coming from the situation I came from, from 1989 in college on up. I was always thought of as an unheralded player. I had to scratch and claw to become an All-Star and an Olympian.

    "Now, at 33, it takes me back to where I was in 1993 (as a rookie). I've got to continue to fight to get respect and get back on the floor. It's not an egotistical thing with me. It's more that I've been here before. Now I've got to work my way back."

    To Baker, who has played all of six minutes as a Rocket since he was acquired on Feb. 24, he will not be all the way back until he is on the court.

    Surplus at power forward

    As the fourth power forward on a team that usually plays no more than two, Baker might continue to find playing time scarce. After the trade with the Knicks — made largely so the Rockets could dump Maurice Taylor's contract — Van Gundy made it clear he had an established rotation at power forward.

    But the more Baker spoke of how far he has come, the more he seemed to want — and need — to take those remaining steps.

    "There's always a burning desire in me," Baker said. "As much as I can put things in perspective, there's a huge part of me that wants to be out there. I study the game. I study every night when I sit there watching, like, 'I can do this. I would have done that.' I don't think that will ever leave me.

    "With my family and my children, things will always be put in perspective now. I've been blessed to have overcome and to have fought through a lot of things in my personal life ... I have great people around me. But the basketball part of me wants to be on the floor."

    jonathan.feigen@chron.com

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Rockets Summary

    Tough week coming

    With a four-game lead on the lottery, the Rockets took off for a four-game trip that could be crucial and certainly could be telling.

    The Rockets will face the Sonics, Suns, Kings and Warriors over the next week. But rather than the last tough road test, the trip will be the first of three remaining four-game trips this season.

    "It's a challenge for us to see where we're really at and where we're headed," forward Tracy McGrady said. "They're winnable games. We got to believe that. We got to come out. We got to be focused. And we got to play 48 minutes. On the road, it's tough."

    The road would seem tough if only because Seattle is 21-8 at home, Phoenix is 22-7 and the Kings 20-11. The Rockets have gone 15-13 on the road this season.

    JONATHAN FEIGEN
    and MEGAN MANFULL
     
  2. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 1999
    Messages:
    97,939
    Likes Received:
    40,556
    Vin must really suck if he gets less PT than Moochie and Weatherspoon.
     
  3. blazer_ben

    blazer_ben Rookie

    Joined:
    May 21, 2002
    Messages:
    6,652
    Likes Received:
    0
    He sounds pretty commited to turn things around. i really things workout for hi, but i just cant see how he'll crack the rotation infront of Padgett or even spoon. nontheless i'm rooting for him.
     
  4. MONON

    MONON Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    4,903
    Likes Received:
    935
    Just a thought, but has Baker ever played center? There's been a few games when Yao & Deke have gotten into foul trouble early.
     
  5. blazer_ben

    blazer_ben Rookie

    Joined:
    May 21, 2002
    Messages:
    6,652
    Likes Received:
    0
    His certianly big enough to be an legit PF/C..
     
  6. tituspan

    tituspan Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2002
    Messages:
    166
    Likes Received:
    2
    I think he played center while in Boston and in later days in Seattle. He's 6-11, tall enough to play center. Anyway, if he is really going to turn himself around, then it might solve our PF problem. But it's a big IF.
     
  7. Fegwu

    Fegwu Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2002
    Messages:
    5,162
    Likes Received:
    4
    Heart warming piece but the fact remains that Vin on current form is a terrible player to put it mildly. What I have read from NY fans and unfortunately confirmed in those 6 minutes was just not encouraging.

    Deep down I am still rooting for him (afterall he is a Rocket) but I will not hold my breath. He could not rebound, or holding on to the ball, pass, defend or even run the floor currectly. You have to really be bad at 6-11 and with over 7-0 wing span to be behind a bloated 6-7 Spoon (one dimensional if I must add) on the PF depth chart.

    Best wishes to Vin in the bigger fight anyway.
     
  8. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 1999
    Messages:
    97,939
    Likes Received:
    40,556
    I hope he's not smiling because he sees SPEC'S.
     
  9. arkoe

    arkoe (ง'̀-'́)ง

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2001
    Messages:
    10,372
    Likes Received:
    1,588
    I know he didn't play in the rout of the Mavs, has he played at all since we acquired him?
     
  10. arno_ed

    arno_ed Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    7,935
    Likes Received:
    1,933
    Ok if your coach says things like this about you you know you will not see alot of playing time.
    I do not see baker contributing to our team.
     
  11. tiger0330

    tiger0330 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2003
    Messages:
    4,759
    Likes Received:
    63
    He played the last 6 minutes in the Chicago rout. He didn't show much, I was looking for the things that JVG was looking for explosiveness and athleticism, he just seemed to coast during his 6 minutes. I would have to agree with JVG, VB thinks he has a lot left, but I don't know.

    I think it is very likely that he will be the guy to go on IL when Sura comes back so it will be a moot point what the guy can contribute.
     
  12. mr_gootan

    mr_gootan Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2001
    Messages:
    1,603
    Likes Received:
    117
    The only way he gets minutes is if he shows a proclivity for defending speedy big men, or for 6 fouls on Shaq.
     
  13. franchise23

    franchise23 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2002
    Messages:
    1,387
    Likes Received:
    1
    As soon as Sura gets back (hopefully on Friday) Baker is going straight to the IL for the rest of this season and most likely for the rest of his tenure here in Houston. When he first arrived I had hoped that maybe he could move ahead of Spoon in the rotation but in the 6 mins of playing time he did get he looked absolutely horrible. Could not rebound, defend, and picked up 4 quick fouls....and this was against the Bulls 3td stringers. Sorry but I dont see him getting on the floor again.
     
  14. across110thstreet

    across110thstreet Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2001
    Messages:
    12,722
    Likes Received:
    1,389
    my words of advice to Mr. Baker-

    Lay off the sauce and take your Prozac, were gonna need you to keep that bench warm for your team
     
  15. Williamson

    Williamson JOSH CHRISTOPHER ONLY FAN
    Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2002
    Messages:
    15,276
    Likes Received:
    18,496
    He's sounded pretty committed for years though. Did you read the glowing articles about his recovery when he arrived in Boston? He even started putting up huge numbers for a while before he relapsed. Again in New York he said these same things but he never put up any numbers there. Here in Houston, he's saying what he knows he's supposed to say but there haven't been meaning in those words for several seasons. He may even mean them, but how can anyone be expected to take him seriously after several years of saying this same crap but never producing? I'd be surprised if he can find another contract after his current contract expires.
     
  16. room4rentsf

    room4rentsf Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2003
    Messages:
    2,409
    Likes Received:
    5
    man I hope VBaker can make a comeback.. Dice is doing pretty well in Detroit and I would have loved to give him a shot over here.

    Hopefully since Bakers bout was with alcohol and not an injury he should be able to get himself in BB form fairly quickly.

    J
     
  17. droxford

    droxford Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2001
    Messages:
    10,101
    Likes Received:
    1,554
    He's obviously got a LOT of heart, he's got the size, and he used to have the talent.

    I wish that tonight's game against Seattle wasn't important. I'm tempted to wish that Vin would get some good quality PT against his old team - it might boost his confidence, it would give him an opportunity to prove himself, and it might spark his talent back up.

    However, since Seattlle is ranked ahead of us, since we're trying to climb the charts, and since we're agout to start a brutal road trip in which wins are gonna be really important, now is not the time for us to start experimenting with Baker.

    Maybe later, though. Perhaps against New York?

    -- droxford
     
  18. Aceshigh7

    Aceshigh7 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2003
    Messages:
    3,902
    Likes Received:
    258
    Hell, I play better when I'm drunk.
     
  19. solid

    solid Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2001
    Messages:
    19,937
    Likes Received:
    7,003
    I love comeback stories; maybe Baker can write one. I wish him the best. I have few expectations. All and any forms of progress will be greatly appreciated.
     
  20. ced

    ced Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2003
    Messages:
    119
    Likes Received:
    0
    with Deke not expected to come back next season. He may be our back-up center for the remainder of his contract here.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now