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UEFA Champions League 2011-2012
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ferrari77 is offline Old 08-29-2011, 08:23 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by Yung-T View Post
To make it more simple for you:

If you get 100 coaches and tell them they have to win the CL the following season or will never be able to coach again: They can choose between Milan, Inter and City.

Dou you really believe more than five coaches would not pick City?
If yes, you don't have to reply anymore as you have no credibility at modern football.
It's funny how you keep devising new ways to get the answer to a simple question? Does Manchester City have a deeper team than Milan or Inter. PLAIN AND SIMPLE! That's the question. That's the issue I had with Ronny's statement and that's the issue you chose to stick your beak in. You can devise a million ways to say Man. City have a tremendously talented squad, that still doesn't stick with the issue.

You don't even have to ask 1 coach your question. I WOULD pick City if I had to win the Cl the following season. That doesn't speak to squad depth.

You believe City have the most talented (and apparently you believe they have a deeper side than Milan or Inter yet you run around in a circle re. your various side arguments). I think that's up for debate but where I won't concede to your silly logic is that they have the deepest side and I proved that quite early on with the comparison of all three squads.

Thankfully I don't rely on your approval for my credibility in modern football. My work speaks for itself and (unashamed humblebrag) the teams in Europe I've dealt with and the journo's I've dealt with don't think in the same fashion as you do or else Man. City would be fellated royally in much the same way you've done on here.
 
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ferrari77 is offline Old 08-29-2011, 08:42 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Yung-T View Post
Ferrari if you are one of the two people in the world that believe Milan and Inter are on the same level as City and winning in Italy has the same value as winnning in Premier League there is no point in arguing with you. I'm correct while you evaluate the rosters wrong and therefore think you're right and conclude my points are silly. I'm out of points in your opinion but you say history and winning a Scudetto, or a title that happened two seasons ago is a justification for naming them CL contenders. If you knew how to judge talent and performance related to the teams City is facing in Premiership and the level of competition then there is just no logical way you can say Milan and Inter are on par. You think you're telling facts but in reality no one would agree with you on that topic. I wanted to tell you now to compare the rosters in detail, how they fit as a team and at what level they can play together. But I see you totally fail at judging players so I can spare that part. To your "City lost vs. Kiev" argument, City had many new players and didn't have chemistry or a definite identification/style that time, while Inter and Milan had little changes and played together for many years. This is no point you can bring up therefore, all that counts is how they play now when being a real team with roles for every guy on their roster.

You can leave everything besides the talent evaluation out of your post as it has nothing to do with the topic and makes you look silly when you're the one failing at evaluation but calling me out.

Please respond plainly by taking a look at the rosters/performances without mentioning me or my age, these parts show you have zero depth and fail to see the key argument/facts. Leave out all the subjective bs you write in every post and show me a scenario based on their rosters and play in which Milan or Inter can really beat City in two games without making me laugh with bringing up indefinite stuff. Thanks in advance.

I love to be informed my evaluation of the rosters are wrong and past performance means nothing in predicting future CL performance. As stated, thankfully the bookies aren't as ridiculously naive and silly as you.

We can compare our understanding and knowledge of the Premiership if you want to go there and see where we stand, that's totally fine with me as I have all day, all week and all year. Winning in Italy means 100% more than coming in THIRD place in the premiership. That's a fact that's staring you in the face.

Seriously, you want to talk to me about judging talent then you want to bring up the teams City faces in the premiership. You do realize they don't play United, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal and Spurs every week right? Last time I checked from 10-20 the EPL isn't exactly a stronger league than Serie A as pertaining to teams in the lower half. They're actually quite comparable.

I think I'm telling you facts? No Chief, I know I'm telling you facts but if you choose to consider them otherwise then that's not my problem. You say no one would agree then how about you put up a poll? Go ahead son, I don't mind.

I think I'll pass on you telling me how to compare rosters and how a team fits and the level they play together. I'm pretty sure I've got that figured out but cheers for the consideration.
To my City lost v. Kiev point. How many new players did City have post Winter window? You're telling me the players acquired in the summer hadn't gelled? Ok then, so if we're going with that logic, what's to say the numerous acquisitions this summer will gel with this team in time to live up to the vast Champions League expectations you're putting on them?

To say Inter Milan had little changes last season is beyond asinine, beyond bold-faced lying and is a ridiculous attempt to twist facts. The team lost one of the best managers in the world to another club. They brought in a manager who lost the team in a matter of months. (I know because guess what I did prior to the season??? I saw the team, spoke to the players and manager and had a gauge as to their feelings about the team post Mourinho. I didn't have to ask anyone for that because I was able to do that). They fired the new manager midway through the season and brought on a new manager. Anyone that doesn't believe all those changes can torpedo a season needs to follow a different sport. It's easy to say one fails at evaluation when you don't point out how. You mentioned a number of City players and tried to toss aside the Milan players. I compared the players on the teams, as in-depth as one can on a internet message board but I guess my evaluation wasn't to your esteemed liking.

One person's objectivity is a daft boy's subjectivity. I've shown you consistent facts that you choose to ignore. In a two leg match I would not be hesitant to bet on Inter or Milan against Man. City. I've shown you the rosters and broken them down for you. The evidence is there, use at your discretion.

Thanks in advance for replying if you do want to actually respond to the actual argument as opposed to the tripe side stuff you've consistently brought up. Just in case you forgot, the argument was

Do Man. City have a deeper side than Milan and Inter? Not can Man. City beat Milan and Inter or are Man. City better favourites to win the Cl than Milan or Inter.

When you've decided you want to stick to the argument as opposed to going round in circles then be a big boy and come back.

Cheers chief.
 
Yung-T is offline Old 08-29-2011, 08:58 AM   #63
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I also said they have a deeper squad and all you did was simply write their rosters and say these guys still got it while overseeing some of their bad performances. I never ran in circles, it's still related to the main topic. Like I said you really seem to believe in their players and therefore think you brought up actual facts by simply writing down their starting 11, some bench players and saying age doesn't matter and they're still good. If that's all you got then I don't see a solution to help you.

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I to believe that Davis has Garnett potential. I also feel that Lamb has McGrady potential. Terrence Jones has the potential to be better than Bosh. Royce has the potential to be another Majic Johnson.

3 potentials > 1 potential.
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Yung-T is offline Old 08-29-2011, 09:00 AM   #64
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Done with this stupidity as you just twist up things and say you broguht up anything relevant, let's go back to the topic.

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Originally Posted by coachbadlee View Post
I to believe that Davis has Garnett potential. I also feel that Lamb has McGrady potential. Terrence Jones has the potential to be better than Bosh. Royce has the potential to be another Majic Johnson.

3 potentials > 1 potential.
jvu - Yeah and I love the D. So PG is perfect for me!

jvu - I am not a fan of harden's D.
 
ferrari77 is offline Old 08-29-2011, 09:04 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Yung-T View Post
I also said they have a deeper squad and all you did was simply write their rosters and say these guys still got it while overseeing some of their bad performances. I never ran in circles, it's still related to the main topic. Like I said you really seem to believe in their players and therefore think you brought up actual facts by simply writing down their starting 11, some bench players and saying age doesn't matter and they're still good. If that's all you got then I don't see a solution to help you.
If I recall correctly, you brought up their rosters first, I simply decided to write it on here so you could accurately evaluate them side by side. You can call it what you want but you ran in circles around the argument.
I believe in City's players AND I believe in Milan and Inter's players as well, I'm not as dismissive as you it seems.
Thankfully I'm not looking for a solution and thus not depending on you for any help. I'm pretty sure football wise I'm in good hands. On the other hand, conversing with someone that believes the previous year or couple of years, performances in the champions league has no bearing on future performance leaves me realizing the solution to your inadequate football evaluation requires further effort which I'd be quite willing to carry on doing but that depends on you. Like I said, I've got all day.

Cheers boss.
 
ferrari77 is offline Old 08-29-2011, 09:05 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Yung-T View Post
Done with this stupidity as you just twist up things and say you broguht up anything relevant, let's go back to the topic.

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I think it's b-r-o-u-g-h-t.
Nitpicking but oh well.
 
ferrari77 is offline Old 08-29-2011, 09:07 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Yung-T View Post
Done with this stupidity as you just twist up things and say you broguht up anything relevant, let's go back to the topic.

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I'm twisting things? Now you want to get back on topic. GTFO.
I've been trying to bring up the actual argument yet your azz has been running around for days on this thread talking about other issues as opposed to the original argument now you want to get back on topic?
Child please!
 
Honey Bear is offline Old 08-29-2011, 09:26 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by ferrari77 View Post
You'll give me Barca but not Real Madrid???
Anyway, you can have a gander at my comparison with the Milan teams.

Koscielny is tolerable as a backup CB yes and one could say same for Djourou but ideally you wouldn't even want Kos to be the 1st CB off the bench imho.
Mata is a primarily a winger but has been adept in the center for Valencia. He won't be playing in the center with Chelsea. Arsenal may have used him in the center but I'd be more angry if I were an Arsenal fan and they lost out on Hazard or M'vila.
I have no doubt they'll stick with Bendtner. That's not in question because that's how Voyeur operates but that's the problem right there. They shouldn't be sticking with him. Unfortunately, right now the issues at the back and midfield are more pressing but if/once they sort that out now/winter window, Arsenal fans will then focus on the waste baskets up front and get Voyeur to do something.

I really think he won't be managing the Gunners by the time the 2013-14 season starts. Some call me crazy for saying that but I believe it. No way he gets pressured to resign this season but come the end of next season and more of the same(especially another trophyless season) he may finally stop being stubborn and step away from Emirates.
The 8-2 shellacking was the best wake up call for Arsene. Playing a high back line the entire game and having the gall to try to get back in it (with a reserve squad) after halftime instead of playing for damage control. He refuses to acknowledge his limits and is naively optimistic regarding any youth. Now Arsenal will have to shell out the money for Cahill and Hazard or their fans will tear down the Emirates...

I still think City are deeper than everyone except Barcelona. This isn't only a question of numbers but who exactly is coming off the bench. Quality at the top strengthens depth. No one else has a player the same calibre as Carlos Tevez not good enough for the top 11. And City have all the bases covered with Balotelli/Tevez backing up the front, Johnson/Milner in the midfield and Richards/Savic at the back. That, to me, is depth.
 
AroundTheWorld is offline Old 08-29-2011, 10:28 AM   #69
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Bayern is better than Manchester City.

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ferrari77 is offline Old 08-29-2011, 10:39 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Ronny View Post
The 8-2 shellacking was the best wake up call for Arsene. Playing a high back line the entire game and having the gall to try to get back in it (with a reserve squad) after halftime instead of playing for damage control. He refuses to acknowledge his limits and is naively optimistic regarding any youth. Now Arsenal will have to shell out the money for Cahill and Hazard or their fans will tear down the Emirates...

I still think City are deeper than everyone except Barcelona. This isn't only a question of numbers but who exactly is coming off the bench. Quality at the top strengthens depth. No one else has a player the same calibre as Carlos Tevez not good enough for the top 11. And City have all the bases covered with Balotelli/Tevez backing up the front, Johnson/Milner in the midfield and Richards/Savic at the back. That, to me, is depth.
Totally right on it being a wake up call for AW. Crazy when you would have figured losing Cesc and Samir would hav ebeen that wake up call. The question is will it change his approach(transfer market wise and tactically).
I guess we'll find out as we go along. Just imagine what will happen if they lose or even tie Swansea.
I think Hazard is a necessity, I don't believe Cahill is so, as the other options apart from Cahill would work quite well imho- Samba, Dann, Jagielka or Alex. The other options right now for Hazard are decent-M'vila, but I'm the group that rates Hazard highly.
Understand where you're coming from re. City, I'll respectfully disagree though as I do believe they aren't deeper than Madrid and are just as deep as a Milan or Inter.
I agree with you on Tevez to an extent. Is the reason he's not in the starting 11 merely because Mancini has deemed Aguero and Dzeko a much better tandem(rightfully so it seems as evidenced by the start to the season for both) or partly because City are tired of Tevez' antics and unlike West Ham, City have the talent to not feel pressured to play him. I don't really think it's simply Mancini doesn't feel Tevez isn't good enough for the starting eleven but as soon as Aguero made his arrival on the EPL scene, Tevez lost any leverage he had hence his being rooted to the bench.
I really hope City let him sit on the bench all season but I'm guessing he'll be out of England by Christmas.

With the exception of Tevez, the City bench is no deeper than Madrid, Milan or Inter's.
Johnson/Milner and Richards/Savic may be EPl depth but it isn't Champions league competition depth in my opinion. Savic is a highly promising player(much like Johnson but more consistent-which you'd hope given the nature of his position) . I guess I don't rate Johnson, Milner and Richards as highly as others.


I guess we'll wait to see how the CL plays out for all those sides.
 
AroundTheWorld is offline Old 08-29-2011, 11:26 AM   #71
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With the exception of Tevez, the City bench is no deeper than Madrid, Milan or Inter's.
Bayern's bench is deeper than any other bench. We will rule ze world.

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Yung-T is offline Old 08-29-2011, 11:57 AM   #72
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If you'd call me COF I'd mistake you for tinman now, seeing how all your posts involve low-level attempts of rhetoric and failing judgement on certain levels. Go ahead and say "I watched football longer than you, I win this argument". The original topic was which squad is deeper, which you only subjectively answered with the "age doesn't matter imo" or "they are on the same level, (I have no performance that backs my thoughts) but again, you're younger than me so your knowledge isn't on par with mine.". Bringing up past championships again and again shows your theory has no substance and I have to conclude you can't logically evaluate modern football.

Congratulations for joining tinman on my Ignore List of people that can't acknowledge truth while glorifying the past and putting themselves at the top with cheap phrases, fake rhetoric and silly replies.

Cheers boss.

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I to believe that Davis has Garnett potential. I also feel that Lamb has McGrady potential. Terrence Jones has the potential to be better than Bosh. Royce has the potential to be another Majic Johnson.

3 potentials > 1 potential.
jvu - Yeah and I love the D. So PG is perfect for me!

jvu - I am not a fan of harden's D.
 
rox1 is offline Old 08-29-2011, 02:00 PM   #73
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Barca-Villareal about to start.. Fabregas and Alexis in the starting 11. Man no Puyol, Pique, Adriano, Maxwell lol who will be playing defence. El jefecito Mascherano has been superb so far, we need him to keep it up

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rox1 is offline Old 08-29-2011, 02:05 PM   #74
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Man, I gotta believe CR7 hated hearing about and watching Messi destroy all last season. This season should be tons better. Mourinho in his 2nd yr there and CR7 with even more to prove as he's in Messi's shadow.

Can't wait to see how Barca comes out. I hope someone's told Cesc that if Barca win, they won't be receiving a trophy seeing as everytime he's stepped on the pitch so far for them he's collected silverware. I'd pay to hear his true thoughts and feelings on Arsenal and AW right now.
CR7 is so lucky though he gets to clap at Messi everytime Messi wins an award. lol. Not sure what Cesc thinks about the total beat down from Man U. but this is what he said about the game vs Udinese.


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ferrari77 is offline Old 08-29-2011, 02:08 PM   #75
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If you'd call me COF I'd mistake you for tinman now, seeing how all your posts involve low-level attempts of rhetoric and failing judgement on certain levels. Go ahead and say "I watched football longer than you, I win this argument". The original topic was which squad is deeper, which you only subjectively answered with the "age doesn't matter imo" or "they are on the same level, (I have no performance that backs my thoughts) but again, you're younger than me so your knowledge isn't on par with mine.". Bringing up past championships again and again shows your theory has no substance and I have to conclude you can't logically evaluate modern football.

Congratulations for joining tinman on my Ignore List of people that can't acknowledge truth while glorifying the past and putting themselves at the top with cheap phrases, fake rhetoric and silly replies.

Cheers boss.

I'm sure I'd probably wouldn't be as bored at your post and might be a tad angrier if I knew or gave a flying f#ck who Tinman is. As far as I can see, I couldn't possibly care any less buddy.

Aww, my "low-level attempts of rhetoric" must have struck a nerve. Once again, I wish I could give a f#ck.
Failing judgment on certain levels? I'm sure one could say that's subjective. You think my judgment as to the argument was failing and I think yours was actually rather weak and that's just unfortunate given the emphasis you've placed on your "debate" skills.
I'm not going to come out and say "I watched football longer than you, I win this argument". because I don't need to. My argument and facts stand on their own merit.
The original topic was which squad is deeper, which you conveniently ignored for two pages worth of posts and you obviously need to revisit the definition of subjective and objective as; I objectively gave you the easiest proof by providing the squad list for the teams involved and comparing them for you but you're stuck on the age thing(which if i recall correctly you chose to bring up not me. I merely disproved your faulty logic that since X&Y players on Milan and Inter are aging, they aren't as good as certain counterparts at City). If I recall as well, I gave you perfomance data from the past season comparing all the teams involved which once again you've chosen to conveniently ignore.
Honestly it really is like arguing with a kid. You say I brought up past championships as if I mentioned all Milans CL titles and Inter's scudetto's when I merely reached back to this calendar year and Milan's scudetto as well as Inter's CL title last year, which are two things the bookies take into consideration, but once again, you choose to believe what you want to believe Chemical Ali.
You can conclude what you want but see buddy, I'm the one that's brought up facts to disprove your various contentions and I didn't need this thread to tell me to ignore every single opinion you've opined in on about footy on Clutchfans because I haven't given any credible weight to the dross you've written about the game on Clutchfans since you've been on.
Once again it seems the "phrases and replies" offended you. Cry me a f#cking river kid.
As mentioned if I knew who Tinman was maybe I'd give a crap and unfortunately the give-a sh!t-o-meter barely registers as to your ignoring me which I requested you do since I'll conveniently do the same as it behooves me to continue reading the dreck that you write on here and gussy up to look like meaningful commentary.

Cheers mate
 
ferrari77 is offline Old 08-29-2011, 02:10 PM   #76
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CR7 is so lucky though he gets to clap at Messi everytime Messi wins an award. lol. Not sure what Cesc thinks about the total beat down from Man U. but this is what he said about the game vs Udinese.

That is just cold what you said about CR7.
Cesc=Class player. Nasri should take notes.
 
ferrari77 is offline Old 08-29-2011, 02:12 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by rox1 View Post
Barca-Villareal about to start.. Fabregas and Alexis in the starting 11. Man no Puyol, Pique, Adriano, Maxwell lol who will be playing defence. El jefecito Mascherano has been superb so far, we need him to keep it up

Are Puyol and Maxwell still out injured?
I'm guessing it's Abidal and Masch in the center right?

I think Rossi can do some damage to the backline. Maybe put in a goal while on the other hand Messi puts in two.
 
ferrari77 is offline Old 08-29-2011, 02:13 PM   #78
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rox1 is offline Old 08-29-2011, 02:21 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferrari77 View Post
Are Puyol and Maxwell still out injured?
I'm guessing it's Abidal and Masch in the center right?

I think Rossi can do some damage to the backline. Maybe put in a goal while on the other hand Messi puts in two.
yup they playing with 3 on the back.. Abidal, Mascherano, and Sergio.

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rox1 is offline Old 08-29-2011, 02:28 PM   #80
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1:0 Thiago!!

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