Break Down of Moreys Trades

[pugsly8422]

After posting what turned out to be the obsolete (thanks Bima & rpr! ) Future Draft Pick thread I got to thinking...Morey has done a great job acquiring future picks, how has he done acquiring players through trade?

I tried to make a list of all of the trades we have made since Morey arrived (May of 2007 I believe). What I'd like to do is break each one down, first to see if I included all of the pieces of the trade (quite often there is a TE, cash or a protected future pick we are not aware of), and second to hear an explanation of what you think of the trade. I think it would fun if different people broke down each trade, or any others I missed (full credit given). Anybody want to volunteer?

If we don't get enough volunteers, I suppose this can just be looked at as a list of Morey's trades. If I missed any trades (highly likely) or any are incorrect that you are aware of, please post them and I'll update the list, giving you full credit. Or you could volunteer to break down the trade and put in there.

1) Aaron Brooks for Goran Dragic & a 1st round pick
2) Shane Battier, Ish Smith & Ariza 6.32m TE for Hasheem Thabeet, DeMarre Carroll, 1st round pick, 7.35m TE, Ish TE (not sure on the value)
3) Tracy McGrady, Carl Landry, Joey Dorsey & Cash for Kevin Martin, Jordan Hill, Hilton Armstrong, Jared Jeffries, right to swap picks in 2011, 2012 1st round pick, $881k TE
4) Jermaine Taylor, 1st round pick, draft rights to Sergei Lishouk & Cash for Terrence Williams, 2nd round pick (not likely to get it), $780,871 TE
5) Trevor Ariza & part of the Carl Landry TE for Courtney Lee & $6.32m TE
6a) Nicolas Batum for Darrell Arthur & Joey Dorsey
6b) Darrell Arthur for Donte Green & 2nd round pick
8) 2nd round pick & Cash for David Andersen
9) Future 2nd & Cash for Carl Landry
10) Cash for Brad Newley
11) Rafer Alston for Kyle Lowry & Brian Cook
12) Donte Green, Bobby Jackson, 2009 1st round pick & Cash for Ron Artest, Patrick Ewing Jr. & Sean Singletary
13) Bonzi Wells, Mike James, Kirk Snyder, 2nd round pick(?) & Cash for Bobby Jackson, Gerald Green, 2nd round pick(?) & rights to Marcus Vinicius
14) Vassilis Spanoulis, 2nd round pick & Cash for Luis Scola & Jackie Butler
15) Cash for 2nd round pick (Jermaine Taylor)
16) Cash for 2nd round pick (Sergio Llull)
17) Juwan Howard for Mike James & Justin Reed
18) David Andersen & Cash for 2nd round pick (not likely to get it) & 2.5m TE
19) Steve Francis, 2nd round pick & Cash for 2nd round pick (not likely to get it)
20) 2nd round pick for Chase Budinger

Trades I believe Morey won:

#1, #2, #3, #5, #7, #9, #11, #12 (at the time it was a good trade), #13, #14, #17 & #20

12 out of 20, and could possibly increase, 60%. The best part is how he totally killed the teams in trades #3, #5, #9, #11, #14 & #20

Trades I believe Morey lost:

#4 (thus far at least, could change), #6, #8, #15, #16 (could also change), #18

Overall we've made some good and great trades, and very few bad ones. I'd like to hear your take on this. I know it would be a lot to ask one person to break down each one, that's why I thought it may be fun, and something different, if people volunteered to break down a single one.

Breakdown of Trade #1, Aaron Brooks

I think this was a great trade and a steal. With Lowry emerging as the obvious starter, it was obvious Brooks was going to lose minutes. He was unhappy, and playing well under his abilities. To top all of this off, he was due a new contract this offseason, and there was no way we were going to offer him what someone else was likely to offer. I'm glad we got something for him. Getting Dragic, who is a servicable backup, was pretty much a lateral move in my opinion, based on what Brooks was giving us. Dragic is also signed at a reasonable contract, which could be very valuable in helping us sign some free agents. The thing that pushed the trade in our favor (by quite a bit I may add) was the 1st round pick we received. I'd give this trade an A. The only reason I didn't give it an A+ is because we all know what Brooks can do, and that could really come in handy if we goes back to that and turns into his former self.


Pugs

[heypartner]

Nice list. Thanks for posting it. I'll refer back this this regularly.

btw: I don't think 15 and 16 should be considered trades. Morey paid cash for 2nd round picks.

[LongTimeFan]

14) Vassilis Spanoulis, 2nd round pick & Cash for Luis Scola & Jackie Butler
11) Rafer Alston for Kyle Lowry & Brian Cook
9) Future 2nd & Cash for Carl Landry
3) Carl Landry for Kevin Martin

Those are the four best trades he's made.

Ironically, the trade that BimaThug is a huge fan of is also the one we shouldn't have done. Had we kept Batum and never traded for Artest, we might have gotten ourselves further in the door with Denver or Utah this trade deadline. No way of knowing for sure, but we do know that Batum is highly coveted around the league.

[ashishduh]

Originally Posted by LongTimeFan 14) Vassilis Spanoulis, 2nd round pick & Cash for Luis Scola & Jackie Butler 11) Rafer Alston for Kyle Lowry & Brian Cook 9) Future 2nd & Cash for Carl Landry 3) Carl Landry for Kevin Martin Those are the four best trades he's made. Ironically, the trade that BimaThug is a huge fan of is also the one we shouldn't have done. Had we kept Batum and never traded for Artest, we might have gotten ourselves further in the door with Denver or Utah this trade deadline. No way of knowing for sure, but we do know that Batum is highly coveted around the league.

Yeah but that trade (and Battier for Gay) was not done to gain overall value. They were done for "winning now" if you will.

And secondly, they weren't trading those guys in conference anyway.

Thirdly, Anthony sucks.

[LongTimeFan]

Originally Posted by ashishduh Yeah but that trade (and Battier for Gay) was not done to gain overall value. They were done for "winning now" if you will. And secondly, they weren't trading those guys in conference anyway. Thirdly, Anthony sucks.

Batum was not traded to win now; he was traded because the Rockets weren't in love with him and preferred to move back for Donte Greene + the 2nd rounder that Portland gave us. Turns out, they should have liked him a lot more than they did. Not a big deal, nobody is perfect.

Utah was involved in talks with the Rockets about Deron before trading him to New Jersey. I think they very well would have moved him to a Western conference team if another WC team could have beaten the offer they received.

[The_Yoyo]

Originally Posted by LongTimeFan 1 Ironically, the trade that BimaThug is a huge fan of is also the one we shouldn't have done. Had we kept Batum and never traded for Artest, we might have gotten ourselves further in the door with Denver or Utah this trade deadline. No way of knowing for sure, but we do know that Batum is highly coveted around the league.

given that we believed we'd be heading into the 08-09 season with both Tracy McGrady and Yao Ming at 100% making a move for another all-star type player was the correct move over keeping a young Batum who could develop into such a 2 way player like Artest was. The team then was in 'win now' mode Artest would have helped a lot more than Batum would have. In hindsight of course had the team known McGrady would have not rehabbed at all properly or diligently during the summer and pretty much be hobbled and re-aggravate the knee during the season then the team probably would have kept Batum.


I think given a situation like that again Morey would do such a trade 10/10 times the thing that screwed Morey was McGrady's non-actions which is always something you cant always account for

[LongTimeFan]

Originally Posted by The_Yoyo given that we believed we'd be heading into the 08-09 season with both Tracy McGrady and Yao Ming at 100% making a move for another all-star type player was the correct move over keeping a young Batum who could develop into such a 2 way player like Artest was. The team then was in 'win now' mode Artest would have helped a lot more than Batum would have. In hindsight of course had the team known McGrady would have not rehabbed at all properly or diligently during the summer and pretty much be hobbled and re-aggravate the knee during the season then the team probably would have kept Batum.

Again, we did not trade Batum to win now. We traded him because we weren't in love with him and thought moving back to Dontre Greene + 2nd rounder was better value.

[The_Yoyo]

Originally Posted by LongTimeFan Again, we did not trade Batum to win now. We traded him because we weren't in love with him and thought moving back to Dontre Greene + 2nd rounder was better value.

i still believe the move was made because

1) Morey didnt want the Spurs who were in love with him to get him
2) I believe Morey knew the Kings liked Donte Greene whose potential actually made him a top 10 pick that year

It was just finding out what else the Kings wanted in exchange for Artest, the first round pick in 2009 was probably want was hard for Morey to give up.


The amount of random dealing that happened on that day batum to portland, arthur to houston and then houston to memphis made me feel that Morey did all that more so to position himself for a deal like Artest to 'win now' otherwise it makes no sense to do that much wheeling and dealing and its far more difficult to when involving multiple teams.

anyways its all moot now but at least imo Daryl's track record as GM includes far more good moves than bad moves which is what I like to see from a general manager.


One thing though it seems he isnt as good with Free Agent signings where there is far more competition involved unlike trades (where things tend to be a bit more hush hush) or the draft (you do research and rank the people you want and then pick the person you like based on when you pick)

[HamJam]

I agree with Das Yo-Yo, Morey does seem to have a weakness with free agency. He might turn that around eventually, but he has been unable to attract major free agents thus far, and I think the Miller signing was a mistake.

The good news for Morey is that he has avoided using free agency too much - he trades players for longer contracted assets before he needs to sign him, and he uses potential future cap space as a way to turn other team's bad contracts into assets (TMac trade netting us Martin, Brain Cook netting us Lowry...)

I'll tell you on thing about Morey, he sure wouldn't have given those huge and terrible contracts to Moochie Norris, Kelvin Cato, and Shandon Andersen which crippled this team for about a decade. And that's a good thing.

[worzel gummidge]

Originally Posted by LongTimeFan Again, we did not trade Batum to win now. We traded him because we weren't in love with him and thought moving back to Dontre Greene + 2nd rounder was better value.

The Rockets drafted Batum because they knew the Spurs wanted him. Morey bragged about the Rockets "intel" in his draft day presser.

[CXbby]

Originally Posted by pugsly8422 Trades I believe Morey lost: #4 (thus far at least, could change), #6, #8, #15, #16 (could also change), #18

Trading cash for 2nd rounders is a no lose proposition. You throw out a few feelers, take a shot at some guys you thought dropped too far or could be productive, and see how they turn out. You can crap out on 5 or 6 of them, but as long as you hit 1 Chase Budinger, then they were all worthwhile. You can't view them as individual trades, but rather a collective strategy.

Also, I might be one of squid's biggest detractors since I really don't like his attitude, but as far as the trade goes, giving up what could be a pick in the 20s for a look at a lottery talent is not a bad deal. It might fail miserably, but such is the life of a GM where there are no absolutes no matter how much homework you do, there will be odds and %s in every trade. The key is to consistently follow through on your winning strategy until it bears fruit. And on the ones that crap out, you lose a low first rounder which you have already demonstrated can be acquired fairly easily.

This is the case for many other lines of work where probability is at play. You cannot judge each bet on an individual basis, but rather assess the strategy as a whole. If it is sound and working, then the results will show in the long run.

[wizkid83]

I'm not even sure if Morey's that weak in FA. Outside of LA (Shaq), Miami, and the Knicks (Amare), how many true perennial all stars actually moved teams due to FA in the last few years. I'm saying seriously go back and think about how many multiple timed all stars moved teams in the off-season in their prime during the last 20 years as FA?

And then when you are talking about netting a perennial all-star in his prime through trades, you really have to have a perfect storm of a player wanting out and having the assets to get the said player. I think Morey's done a pretty good job of getting assets, we just need the right trading partner.

[roflmcwaffles]

Originally Posted by pugsly8422 4) Jermaine Taylor, 1st round pick, draft rights to Sergei Lishouk & Cash for Terrence Williams, 2nd round pick (not likely to get it), $780,871 TE 6) Nicolas Batum for Darrell Arthur & Joey Dorsey 8) 2nd round pick & Cash for David Andersen 15) Cash for 2nd round pick (Jermaine Taylor) 16) Cash for 2nd round pick (Sergio Llull) 18) David Andersen & Cash for 2nd round pick (not likely to get it) & 2.5m TE Trades I believe Morey lost: #4 (thus far at least, could change), #6, #8, #15, #16 (could also change), #18

#4 - Yea he lost as of now, but not much a 1st round pick isn't a whole lot.
#6 - SO FAR FROM A LOSS, it is being ignored he turned Batum into 2 second rounders + Ron Artest, who led the Rockets to their 1st playoff series win in 10 years, I'll take that.
#8 - Yea this is a loss but again only a 2nd rounder
#15, #16, & #18 aren't really losses we basically gave up cash for players, so they are pretty neutral imo.

[roslolian]

Regardless of how you feel about Ron Artest, I think its safe to say DM the GM missed the boat on the Batum express. Whatever his intentions may be, whether its to stiff the Spers or whatever, bottomline is they traded Batum for Greene and a throw-in 2nd rounder. I don't know about you but to me its exactly what LTF has been saying: they just thought that Greene was the better player. I don't really buy the notion that they were aiming to trade Greene for Artest when they drafted him, first of all if that's the case the trade should have happened in draft day, not right after Greene scored 40 pts in summer league.

I already created a thread about it before but DM and his staff's talent evaluation when it comes to unknown wing players are extremely spotty. As far as DM's trades go, his best moves IMHO are the Scola trade, the Tmac trade and drafting PP over other dudes like Sanders. His worst is definitely awarding Miller a 5M contract AND attempting to trade for THugelo as a rental. Thank god he went to the Knicks, otherwise we would be in deep **** right about now...

[pugsly8422]

Instead of the yes/no poll, I probaly should have asked where you think Morey stands right now based on the trades he's made. I would say he is definitely top tier, I would say top 3, well above average.

Pugs

[worzel gummidge]

Originally Posted by roslolian I don't really buy the notion that they were aiming to trade Greene for Artest when they drafted him, first of all if that's the case the trade should have happened in draft day, not right after Greene scored 40 pts in summer league.

I got the feeling he was traded partly because Artest suddenly became available (complaining to the media) and Greene fell out of favor with the Rocokets coaching staff (complaining to the media about his work ethic).

[withmustard]

I believe we traded D0rrell Arthur, not Darrel Arthur. I could be wrong.

[pugsly8422]

Originally Posted by withmustard I believe we traded D0rrell Arthur, not Darrel Arthur. I could be wrong.

I think it's pronounced like it has an "o", but I think it's spelled with an "a".

Pugs

[Andre Barrett]

#16 is a win to me so far. Llull looks good.

[DrNuegebauer]

Sorry to say it, but your estimation of these trades might illustrate that you don't know the mechanics of the cap quite well enough.

For mine, you CANNOT lose by buying a pick. That's nothing for a potential asset.

Further, dumping Andersen's salary saved us the money it would require to buy a pick anyway...