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Bill Maher and Sam Harris arguing with Ben Affleck about Islam

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by AroundTheWorld, Oct 4, 2014.

  1. giddyup

    giddyup Contributing Member

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    Can anyone demonstrate, in this era, where Islam is growing in any but the most radical sects? Who would be drawn towards that religion at this time in this world?
     
  2. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    Sweet Lou 4 2? ;)
     
  3. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    I am so in your head you don't even know it.
     
  4. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    LOL, you wish. You are nothing but someone to laugh at and to pity.
     
  5. g1184

    g1184 Member

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    Americans

    [​IMG]
     
  6. mdrowe00

    mdrowe00 Member

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    Just as an extra point of reference...

    ...in attempting to answer whether or not it is possible for "Islam" to co-exist with democracy....

    opinion piece from the Washington Post, Saturday October 24, 2014...bold and italicized emphasis in the article mine


    Tunisia shows there is no contradiction between democracy and Islam
    By Rachid Ghannouchi October 24

    Rachid Ghannouchi is founder and chairman of Tunisia’s Ennahda party.

    As Tunisia prepares to hold its second free and fair election on Sunday — and continues its transition from despotism to democracy — my country offers a stark contrast to the extremes of terrorism and military intervention seen elsewhere in the region. Tunisia stands as proof that the dream of democracy that spurred the Arab Spring lives on.

    Despite what some believe, there is no “Arab exception” to democracy, nor is there any inherent contradiction between democracy and Islam. The Middle East can indeed achieve stability and peace through a process of democratic reconciliation and consensus. But the road will be long and involves the challenging work of building institutions, healing old wounds and forging compromise around shared values. The path that Tunisia has taken can guide others.

    Domination by those in power has been at the root of many failures in our region’s history. That is why the Ennahda, or Renaissance, party has not sought a monopoly of power in Tunisia. In the 2011 elections, Ennahda, which I lead, won the largest share of the vote by a significant margin but nonetheless called for a national-unity government, entering into a coalition with two secular parties. The party then voluntarily transitioned to a consensus, technocratic government with the goal of ensuring the successful completion of the transition to democracy.

    Sacrificing party interest in this way was a small price to pay for national unity. A 51 percent vote may be enough to give a new government legitimacy in established democracies such as the United States. But in a place like Tunisia, where the foundations for democratic rules are still being constructed through a delicate process of consensus-building, acting with such a narrow majority risks polarizing the people.


    Crucially, Tunisians have committed to the establishment of a pioneering model of political partnership between moderate secularists and moderate Islamists. Bringing together the center in this way helped us adopt a constitution in January with the backing of an astounding 94 percent of the national assembly. The constitution, widely considered to be among the most progressive in the Arab world, enshrines equality and guarantees the rights of every Tunisian woman and man.

    Unlike in Libya, Egypt or Iraq, Tunisia’s new political system has turned away from exclusion; rather, we put our faith in the ballot box. We have also endeavored to avoid any mistreatment of those who oppressed, wrongly imprisoned and tortured others under the old system by establishing a Commission on Truth and Dignity, which provides a judicial process guided by human rights and rule of law to help us turn the page on the past.

    Tunisia’s state institutions have also played a significant role. The military has committed itself to the democratic transition, and civil society groups, trade unions and business chambers have contributed to our dialogue. Tunisians also are fortunate to have strong women who have participated tirelessly in this process: 41 of Ennahda’s 89 members of parliament are female. They have the highest participation rates in parliament, head constitutional drafting committees and lead consultations with civil society.

    While we are proud of our progress, we know that Tunisia still faces immense challenges. Violent extremists see our democratic values of moderation, consensus and gender equality as a threat to their vision; structural reforms are required to transform our economy from the personal fiefdom it once was to one based on rule of law, free enterprise and innovation. We need support to navigate these challenges. We appreciate President Obama’s positive citation of Tunisia in his speech before the United Nations in September, but support for our democracy must come both in words and action. The West cannot return to the era when it perceived an illusory trade-off between stability and democracy. Long-term stability cannot exist if our people are disenfranchised, our institutions monopolized and our youth disempowered. The choice between stability and democracy is false.

    The results of free and fair elections must be respected. Some worry about the victory of democratic Islamic parties like Ennahda, mistakenly grouping them with radical extremists. But putting all Islamists in the same bucket, or linking Islam itself to violence, only serves the aims of terrorists who consider democracy to be un-Islamic. In the past, such an Islamists vs. secularists division was propagated by authoritarian regimes to distract from their own suppression of pluralism and all forms of opposition.

    Tunisia hopes to prove that Islam and democracy can coexist in the Middle East. That we, too, yearn for freedom. That we, too, can develop a progressive, inclusive system. That our people can put the interests of their nation above personal political interests. But we need the West to invest in our democracy — not just for our sake but for all those with a stake in a more secure world.
     
  7. tallanvor

    tallanvor Contributing Member

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    PakistanToday: An Open Letter To Ben Affleck

     
    #467 tallanvor, Oct 27, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2014
    1 person likes this.
  8. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    Awesome letter. Thanks for posting it.
     
  9. giddyup

    giddyup Contributing Member

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    Perhaps my question was not clear. I'm not just talking about the raw numbers rising though birthrate etc.

    I was really getting at voluntary conversions... like these young women going abroad and converting in order to become Muslim baby factories.

    It has long been my understanding that most new American Muslims are in prison... most but not all.
     
  10. g1184

    g1184 Member

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    No idea. Here's an article from 2013: http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2013/09/economist-explains-17

    Doesn't seem like there are reliable numbers for what you're looking for.
     
  11. manbearpig

    manbearpig Member

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    Late, but I thought this was an interesting response to Affleck -


    http://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/2014/10/25/comment/an-open-letter-to-ben-affleck/


     
  12. manbearpig

    manbearpig Member

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    Ah nevermind I didn't know this article was a big deal, and there's already a thread on it. I can't edit anymore, if you want to go ahead and delete that ^^^
     
  13. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    Can't be posted often enough! Of course, the leftist apologists as well as the Islamist posters completely ignored her argument, called her an attention w**** (basically - Mathloom) and if they reacted at all, just dismissed her.
     

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