I don't think they are comparable. Kobe better at shooting and I'm the post. Hardens better going 1on1 and driving the paint . we shall see when they go head to head next month!
goodbug please, let the adults talk. As long as you refuse to accept that Shaq was the most dominant player on those 3 championships teams nobody takes yous seriously. I want to thank you for replying and having a actual discussion. We disagree but I respect that you try to give arguments (my apologies for my initial post, it was not civil). How many Final MVP’s and chapionships as the best player on the team do Malone and Nash have? That is right 0. Indeed only MVP awards do not tell the whole story, but when you combine it with Final MVPs and championships as the best player on the team it paints a clearer picture. Duncan is a slightly better post player? That is an understatement. You seem to assign Duncans advantages to his position but not Kobes. To me it is clear. Better defensive player: Duncan by far Better Offensive player: debatable, Kobe has more points (but at a much lower FG%) Kobe has more assists, but that is because he handles the ball more, I prefer a to play form the inside out, So I would prefer to build my offense around Duncan instead of Kobe. Who cares. Who has had more play off success as the best player on the team. Duncan. I do not care about I bad year (especially since play offs is about matchups. When you look at their stats during play-offs and regular season: Bryant Regular season – Play offs PPG 25.5 – 25.6 RPG 5.3 – 5.1 APG 4.8 – 4.7 FG% .454 - .448 Duncan Regular season – Play offs PPG 19.9 – 21.3 RPG 11.1 – 11.7 APG 3.1 – 3.1 FG% .506 - .500 These stats do not suggest that Kobe turned it on in the play offs compaired to Duncan. It actually show more the opposite. And Kobes final stats decrease even further. I remember a couple of terrible finals for Kobe. I agree that both are great players, But Kobes lows are very low. He is to selfish for me and that costs them championships. I do not understand how a player can shoot/ and miss as much as he did (in the last finals with shaq) when you have the most dominant player on the planet on your team. So you are saying Kobe is on the same level as Magic/Bird/Kareem/Wilt /Russel? (do you rank Shaq and Dream above or below that list?) That is food for another debate (one that is even more lopsided than this one.). Let's just focus on Kobe v Duncan. You have a lot of luseless inks to people saying Kobe was great. But let me give you one link: Our own site overwhelmingly said Duncan was the better player: http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=256387 Also google Duncan greatest ever and you have a lot of site were people say the same things about Duncan. For me it is simple, Kobe won 2 championships as the best player on the team. Duncan won more. Defensively Duncan is much better Offensively it is debatable When you look at stats they are both impressive. Duncan has more Championships as the best player of the team Duncan has more final MVPs Duncan has more regular season MVPs So to me it is clear Duncan is better.
Let the adults talk? Would that mean you're a actually adult with credible basketball knowledge? Um, sure
Kobe Useless links = Kevin Durant, Charles Barkley, Magic Johnson, Jerry West, Dirk Nowitzki, Larry Bird... Dime Magazine's Player of the Decade Sporting News NBA Player of the Decade http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/sto...news-nba-athlete-decade-kobe-bryant-sg-lakers Tim Duncan..greatest ever= greatest power forward ever. As a center, he's not top 5. No one mentions him as a top 5 player, or even compare him to greater talents. Most of the people who do are Spurs fans. Credible bunch there TNT's Player of the Decade http://www.nba.com/video/all_decade/2010/02/15/20100214_alldecade_kobe.nba/ http://www.nba.com/video/all_decade/2010/02/15/20100214_alldecade_kobe.nba/ For me it is simple, Kobe won 2 championships as the best player on the team. Duncan won more. Defensively Duncan is much better Offensively it is debatable When you look at stats they are both impressive. Duncan has more Championships as the best player of the team Duncan has more final MVPs Duncan has more regular season MVPs So to me it is clear Duncan is better.[/QUOTE]
Duncan hasn't been the best player on his team for awhile. He's been able to coast the last 5-6 years because he's with a great franchise that's allowed him to rest during the regular season. He's also played alongside 2 HOF players that are both very productive. You guys don't understand the difference between comparing players, verse comparing player careers. Kobe is by FAR the better player. Who had the better career is debatable. Again, the Spurs without Duncan are still a threat in the West. The Lakers without Kobe are one of the worst teams in the NBA. Duncan hasn't had to carry the same load Kobe has during his career
I didn't consider Duncan to be better solely because he has more MVPs. I mentioned a bunch of his advantages, with MVPs being one of them. Your Malone comparison doesn't fly because he doesn't have an advantage in almost every category like Duncan does over Kobe. I'm not dismissing their accomplishments by noting what their accomplishments really were. Neither gave star level support. Duncan managed to win without another star. Kobe hasn't. It's one of the reasons a big can be more valuable because they don't need as much help to win. The only other player Kobe played with was another arguable top 10 player EVER? You mention all the things a guard should have an advantage in, yet don't give a position excuse, yet you give a position excuse for Duncan's advantages? Kobe is not a slightly inferior post player. This is laughable. And as I mentioned above, it's laughable that you blame Duncan's advantages on position but ignore the same for Kobe. And Kobe was a secondary option for the majority of his Finals appearances and titles. Duncan has LED his team to more Finals and titles than Kobe. The Spurs w/ Duncan never blew a 3-1 series lead, something that's only been done 8 times in league history. Duncan also never quit on his team, as Kobe did in that series. BS. Kobe has underperformed plenty of times in the playoffs and in two Finals, where he was downright horrible. The 04 Finals was the biggest upset in at least 2 decades. And the 2012 season was also one of the biggest letdowns in league history. I laugh at this list. Amare never beat him in the playoffs. Yet he was outplayed? Duncan won the title vs Sheed in 05. Please provide numbers to show how Malone and Grant outplayed Duncan. That Shaq guy didn't have anything to do with those losses? CP3 outplayed him in a series. So did Durant. So did Nash if you are really gonna argue that Karl Malone outplayed Duncan. Pierce in 08. Dirk in 11. Etc. I don't believe Harrison is considered the greatest WR ever. So I will laugh at this comparison too. Duncan is just as unstoppable and impactful, which is why his team has never won less than 50 (like Kobe's) and why he has led his teams to more titles than Kobe. Facts actually show that Duncan was more unstoppable. Because great guards are typically flashier than bigs. He is, just not by you. Proof? You have taken an account and can show most of the players from 96 to now are on record of that? Very true. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. However, I'm asking you for tangible support and you really aren't giving me any. Just to be clear, I respect your opinion. But you really can't point to anything tangible to show Kobe has accomplished more, individual or team wise.
Is he? Please explain why. He scores more points but he takes more shots to get there. The point per shots are identical between these players. Kobe may have more assists, but that is logical since he is the primary ball handler (the difference in assists is actually much smaller than you would expect). Both have had great offenses revolve around them. I do not see prove that Kobe was the better offensive player, only preferences how you want your best player to play on offense, which lead me to say it is debatable. So why is Kobe by far the better offensive player? What is debatable about more MVPs more final MVPs and more championships as the best player? Which years are you talking about? 1996-2004 During all these years Shaq was the best player on the team. Playing on a team when you are not the best player does seem like a good team. In 1997 the Lakers had 4 all stars (which the spurs did not have). 2004-2007 Indeed the Lakers had a terrible team. (Which Kobe was partly to blame for since he got into fights with the talent, like Shaq they had the greatly talented teams the year before). Kobe did not have much success in these years 2007-2011 The Lakers had great teams here. The frontcourt of Gasol, Bynum Odom (and later Artest) were among the best in the league. These teams would still get into the play-offs without Kobe 2012 This was a talented team. A frontcourt of Gasol and Howard is amazing, this was one of the most disappointing season in recent history, the talent was there, but the chemistry wasn’t there (again for a large part caused by Kobe). Kobe wanted to do everything himself, if he would just have trusted his teammates it would not be such a terrible year. I do have to say Mike D’antoni is a terrible coach So I cannot blame Kobe completely for this year. 2013 Kobe did not play. So there terrible teams you keep referring to are 4 years in a 18 year career. And in those 18 years Kobe was not the best player on the team for 8 years. Which are more years he has not been the best player on his team than Duncan. Icehouse has answered your posts well enough, I do not have to repeat. Could you address the following? For me it is simple, Defensively Duncan is much better Offensively it is debatable When you look at stats they are both impressive. Duncan has more Championships as the best player of the team Duncan has more final MVPs Duncan has more regular season MVPs So to me it is clear Duncan is better.
Kobe is so freaking overrated. He's the second best 2 of all time... But I wouldn't place him in my top 10, more than likely not even top 15. Anyways as of now harden > Kobe. We don't know if the dudes even healthy, and last time he played he barely made the playoffs with a super stacked roster. And best player of the last decade is Duncan. Duncan doesn't get the media buzz... Because he played in an awful media market, while Kobe was in the best media market.
im rockets fan but lets be serius kobe with broken legs is twice a better player then harden, second mvp means a **** in last 20 years actualy I only realy count them before 80s.
And Kobe jerk fest carries on. Kobe is not a top 10 player All Time. In No Order, here are 10 or more much better players than him ALL TIME Dream Jordan Magic Russell Wilt KAJ Shaq Duncan Bird LBJ Oscar
It's hard to rank players in different eras against each other. If you are ranking by how much that player dominated his era, then there's nobody that compares to Wilt. I'd rank that list this way: 1. Bill Russell 2. Wilt Chamberlain 3. Kareem Abdul Jabbar 4. Magic Johnson 5. Michael Jordan But I'm a believer that players evolve and the players of today are so much more athletic than the players of yesterday. So if I were to go beyond eras, here's how I would rank the best ever: 1. Shaq 2. MJ 3. Magic 4. Lebron (will likely move up) 5. Kobe Duncan is probably #6, but he is also a product of a great system. He was lucky to win his first titles with David Robinson and then Tony Parker came to help him afterwards. Also, people disregard Kobe's contributions to their first three titles simply because they just look at box scores. If you actually watch basketball, you would see that Shaq depended on Kobe just as much as Kobe depended on Shaq. There's no question in my opinion that Shaq was the most unstoppable player when he got the ball down in the post. But he was susceptible to getting fouled on purpose if he didn't have the ball in the right place. There was a time when people said Shaq would never win a title...just like people said about MJ. He had a great team around him in Orlando with Penny Hardaway...but Penny is not Kobe. In fact, the Lakers were going nowhere until Kobe matured into a great player. Remember, they had Eddie Jones who was an all star shooting guard, but the Lakers were never able to turn the corner. NBA TV shows a lot of old Lakers playoffs games in the early 2000s. Take a look at those games and tell me Kobe was not essential for the Lakers to win those titles. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who discredits Kobe's contributions in those runs don't even watch basketball and just look at boxscores.
There's a lot of talk about Kobe being second fiddle to Shaq. And maybe that is true because throwing it down low to Shaq for an easy dunk is a high percentage shot. But that team with Kobe and Shaq from 2000-2003 was probably the best team of all time. If Tim Duncan was on the Lakers at that time, he would be second fiddle to Shaq as well. And yes, the Lakers in those years went right through San Antonio like road kill...everybody was road kill. The reason that team was so dominant was because they had 2 of the top 10...maybe top 5 players of all time. The same people probably discredit James Worthy as one of the best small forwards of all time because he happened to be on another of the greatest teams of all time with Magic. Another thought is that the 2002 Sacramento Kings was probably one of the top 10 teams of all time even though they never won a title. It was unfortunate that they had the Kobe/Shaq Lakers to deal with, but there are plenty of NBA championship teams that the Sacramento Kings would have pummeled.
In the 2000-2001 season, the Lakers swept the Blazers in round 1, swept the Kings in round 2, and swept the Spurs in the Western Conference Finals...then they had a week off before facing the Sixers in the Finals. They lost game 1 due to being cold...but then won the next 4 games to close out the Sixers. I don't believe there is any championship team that dominated the playoffs more. And yes, Tim Duncan participated on the Spurs that year. There are a few teams in the 1980s with Magic, Byron, Worthy, AC Green, and Kareem that many consider the greatest of all time, but they had problems with Mark Eaton's size back then. Imagine what kind of problems they would have with Shaq. I happen to believe the 2001 Lakers would have rolled all over the showtime Lakers. And you comment as if the Lakers are some chump franchise...a franchise that has been in the finals over 30 times is not some chump franchise. To be the greatest Lakers team of all time has some merit.
The '01 Lakers would be lucky to even see a game 6 against the '87 team. There are quite a few pre salary cap teams that were better than that 01 team, post salary cap? probably only the '96 Bulls. Mark Eaton? come on, everyone struggled with Eaton, even Hakeem because he was both massive and an excellent defender.
Except for that part where he turned the ball over and committed a bad foul in crunch time and lost the game... he outplayed kobe, lol. But Kobe's just chucking the ball right now. His team is losing. Harden's outplaying him even though Harden is slumping too. the present and the future is Harden's. But I have to give it to Kobe. Dude is a medical marvel. Came back from an achilles n weird broken leg at 36 and he looks pretty decent. And although kobe is insane, he has better body language than Harden. Harden always looks like he is half asleep, even while in mid air for a thunderous dunk.
