Just some +/- numbers I looked up for OKC last season (regular season only). Code: Durant and Westbrook --------------------- MIN OFF DEF NET w/ Harden 1124 117.2 107.5 +9.7 w/o Harden 1036 103.3 100.0 +3.3 Durant, no Westbrook -------------------- MIN OFF DEF NET w/ Harden 235 110.9 104.3 +6.6 w/o Harden 36 76.7 85.5 -8.8 Westbrook, no Durant -------------------- MIN OFF DEF NET w/ Harden 64 107.9 85.2 +22.7 w/o Harden 11 76.7 82.6 -5.3 Harden ------ MIN OFF DEF NET Durant,Westbrook 1124 117.2 107.5 +9.7 Durant,no Westbrook 235 110.9 104.3 +6.6 Westbrook,no Durant 64 107.9 85.2 +22.7 no Durant,no Westbrook 435 112.2 104.6 +7.6 It will be interesting to see what kind of drop-off OKC suffers without James Harden, if any. Some have argued that Harden provided redundant skills so OKC won't be greatly impacted by the loss. But these numbers, to me, suggest otherwise. To what extent can Kevin Martin and Jeremy Lamb make up for the loss?
K mart is not a playmaker, purely a shot taker. Lamb is unproven but still a great prospect who can be molded to become what once was James Harden.
Yeah to me is not really the points, I'm sure K-Mart will fill that and some, but it's really Hardens decision making and passing. What we saw last night when the Rockets were down by 11, Harden was just cool and composed, taking it to the basket and just making wise decisions with the ball. He really does make his teammates better.
the first game is tonight it will be interesting to see how that works out for OKC -- I am sure they will be fine but it will be interesting to see how their bench will operate and in general WB and KD without having Harden there. Martin can replace the scoring but I feel Martin's skillset completely overlaps with what KD does. Martin can finish plays he doesnt start or create them.
Agreed. Martin can score, but every other facet of his game is terrible. Also, if he doesn't get calls, he is practically useless on the court. Lamb is nice, but I feel like he will develop along the same lines as Marshon Brooks.
wow hardens O - D is huge with him on the court comparative to Durant and westbrook... i guess we can say he is a good 2 way player.
Can't wait! - Mr. Scott Not surprised that there were only 47 minutes total that you could use as a comparison with them solo. Was surprised that WB/Harden only combined for 64 though. (Did that go up in the playoffs?) And yeah, the starting line up that included Perkins, Thabo, and Ibaka really hurt offensively. But, good to see it is at least 7 points better on defense (even if it is not as good a net in comparison). Unless Ibaka really steps his game up, that unit will continue to suffer on offense.
Unless I'm missing something, those stats show he is a boon on offense and a detriment on defense. (Since he is replacing Thabo - it isn't hard to see why the numbers make it look that way.)
That's exactly what I thought. I was really surprised. I know last night was only one game. But Harden seems to be much more effective playing with a good PG (Lin) than with a bad PG (Douglas). That's somewhat surprising to me too. I always thought Harden's skills overlapped with a PG's, especial one like Lin who is also an attack type PG.
Higher the DEF, the worse the defense. Not surprising, though. Sefalosha is a defensive specialist, so I would expect OKC to play better D with him on the floor than with Harden.
I wouldn't go that far with only 64 minutes. But taking everything together, its interesting that OKC's performance isn't "elite" when Harden wasn't on the floor. Despite having what most experts would regard as 2 top-10 players and a host of solid role players.
He makes his teammates better, that much is clear. Looking forward to tonight's game. I have a feeling that Westbrook is going to try to prove something.
OKC has to hope Maynor, K-Mart, an improved Reggie Jackson and an improved, more utilized Ibaka will make up for Harden on the offensive end. When will Coach Bonehead announce who the backup PG is? This is getting silly. The OKC beatwriter said RJ's confidence problems last year came from how he was treated by teammates, Harden in particular. I was on RJ's bandwagon and he sorely disappointed.
Yeah, I'm thinking WB is gonna play SG a lot with Maynor at the point. Good thread, good stats, Opie.
durvasa, seems like only the top comparison is valid, statistically from a minutes perspective. Just Durant/Westbrook vs. All three. Not that surprising, really. All three on the court at the same time is better.
While going small is something OKC probably will do a lot more this season (with Ibaka and Collison at C), pairing WB and Maynor regularly may not be one of them. It's amazing we are still waiting for the coach to announce the backup PG and it may not even be Maynor. With PJ3 replacing Cook as the backup SF, the 3rd string PG may not get much floor time. I have a feeling they want to throw RJ into the pool to see if he can swim. If yes, Maynor is a goner. If not, they can bench RJ and ride Maynor's steady hand. Either result will reduce the pressure on WB this year considerably.
He needs a PG who's at least a threat to make a play when the D collapses, if not the D can key in on the paint when he drives, if TD could've at least hit a shot or 2 Harden would've had 40+ last night.