Maybe if was so consistently down, people would be okay with the occasional mistakes. When you're paid what he's being paid, you should expect so much better than what he's given.
Join date? Deferring criticism away from Lin? Again, you haven't even read any of my post lol. Your just spewing nonsense hoping something sticks at this point. Check my past posts. I've always thought Lin was trash and still do. But I'm not bias either. Harden's turnovers are horrendus and IF he's going to make them, atleast let them not lead to a fast break layup. If a championship will be won he needs to be more careful on HOW he turns the ball over. You like many on here, just have favorites who you'll under no circumstances criticize. You attempt to disguise it but it becomes obvious the more you post. You've already made it clear you believe Harden's above criticism. Not sure how that's possible
I gave you proof that his TOs and type of TOs are right in line with the top flight high usage wings in this league. You keep spouting off that his TOs are horrendous or somehow different than these other guys, yet you have no stats or anything to back up your claim. You are just going off the games you watch. You have no idea whether Harden causes more of these live ball TOs than the other guys. No one is above criticism when the criticism is legit. You are harping on a problem that all but 2 high usage guys(CP3 and Melo)in the league suffer from.
Cool, lets put all the agenda's aside. Care to make a single coherent point about Harden's turnovers other than: "Harden's turnovers are horrendus" Some data, some comparisons, perhaps show the level of impact.
Really? I don't give Lin a hard time over turnovers specifically, due to other superstars having high numbers of turnovers. Plus, Harden completely makes up for it in so many other areas. Which is the same in the case with other star players as well. No doubt, he needs to do better, but he's a young player with a franchise on his back. If he didn't have a turnover issue, he'd be the best player in the league. Which is saying a lot considering his age, and this being the time of Lebron. Outside of KD, if there's one young star that can really play against the Heat, with their physicality, it's Harden. He's already a tank, so he doesn't play a dangerous style of basketball like Westbrook or Rose. Less opportunity for injury. Will also bode well for the longevity of his play at such a high level. That's really why he gets a pass. Lin should too in his own right.
Lin has high TO ratio, but you also need aware that he has two data ranking No.1 among PGs. 1. Point per shot 1.36, meaning high FTM/shoot, 2. Point per assist opportunities about 1.36, meaning he is a high risk high reward passer. This is a hidden perspective, data only available this year with sportVU tracking cameras.
Don't even try, all stats are meaningless unless it proves a person's point of view. I don't even get why some of the seniors try to defend/criticize Lin anymore than they do now since it all gets drowned underneath alot of drivel and nonsense from both sides of the camp.
This is something I am sure the coaches are on him about it. No one gets a free pass. We are striving for perfection and a championship.
the ppl saying free pass can kiss my azz. if we keep falling short year after year, Harden's defensive and TO deficiencies will matter. Our coaching staff needs to get on his case even more asap and nonstop...semi-superstar or not.
Again, I don't think many folks are willing to just ignore Harden's turnover numbers. It seems like the crux of this argument has been about whether or not his turnovers are hurting the team, and inferring that his hurt as much if not more than other players. To me that's just silly. Of course turnovers hurt the team. So does poor defense, fouling jump shooters and getting injured. Unfortunately it's all part of the game. The best players maximize their strengths and minimize (not remove) their weaknesses. The all time legends filled the gaps in their game and in some cases even turned perceived weaknesses into strengths. Remember everyone calling out MJ his first couple of years because of his questionable jump shot? My point is that Harden does have holes in his game. Consistent effort on defense would be my primary concern. His turnover rate isn't that bad if you put it into perspective (and MANY have in this thread). Look at it this way: Let's say my first car was a '79 cutlass beater that got like 15 MPG and had 150hp. I constantly complained about the MPG. Now I have a 450hp muscle car that gets 15 MPG. Should I still be upset about the MPG? It's all perspective.
This response literally brings no new info to the table to counter the plain and clear statistics that James Harden turns the ball over at a lower rate than three other players on the team. If you wan't to try to bring light to someone's mistakes to distract people from talking about Lin's high turnover rate, then you'd have a better case with Dwight Howard.
Exactly. To me that would be a much more worthwhile discussion. Dwight's turnovers are more problematic than Hardens IMO. Hmm, but would Harden's lack of defense rank higher than Dwight's turnover issues? :grin:
Debatable I suppose. The majority of the time, Harden's defense is pretty much in line with Lin, Parson's, Casspi, Dmo, etc. Just silly, stupid mistakes usually. Then there are the stretches where he doesn't even give a ****, which is what most people talk about.
Agreed. However I'd argue there are stretches where Dwight plays great in the post, followed by groups of those, "WTF were you thinking?!?" possessions. If I had to pick which one frustrates me more I'd probably lean towards the DH bad post up turnovers. I have zero statistical evidence of how it affects the team though. Unless number of times I swear at the TV is a valid metric.
My easily deluded eye test. Harden is a pretty low TO guy. But there are games he just give the balls away (and give the game away). Good things, those games are rare and has occurred only once or maybe twice since all star break. Just hope he doesn't have any of those in the playoff.
If it leads to a fast break the other way like the vast majority of Lin's jump pass TO's or when Harden gifts the other team with a lazy pass, than its a really bad TO. If it's a TO that still allows our team to get set on D, it's not nearly as bad.
