David Cameron: Britain's EU Referendum to be held June 23

Nice friends. Sounds like they have a healthy political philosophy. Somehow familiar.



Sad that humans just can't overcome their very basic flaws, their heritage of intense tribalism. Original sin, if you will, and all that.

History will not look kindly on today's history-ignorant xenophobic nationalists. The question is how much will be lost in the bargain. To hear some of these people talk, they don't want to just regress past certain liberal reforms. They want to regress past the Enlightenment. That's the kind of feudalism at the sad, logical end of UKIP et alia's tribal goals.

 

The FDA was done in response to massive abuse by industry - the standards did not exist at all. In countries without a strong regulatory body such as China, where industry set the standards you have the worst pollution and highest cancer rates in the world. Do you buy any of your foods from China?

That is exactly why the EU was created!

 

Absolutely not.

 

In no small part, it was created using the very basic, sensible, and time-tested theory that closely cooperating economic states do not go to war with one another. Europe had been repeatedly decimated by wars for most of its history until the surprising last 70 years. Probably just a blip, historically, created by the cold war and the (perhaps failing) EU.

If the nationalists keep winning, it's only a matter of time before the saber rattling starts, the national pride swelling armories. It's always this way.

 

The whole idea was to create an tightly integrated economic block to compete with the U.S. which had a massive advantage in having uniformity across its 50 states.

 

Very. Decent, hard-working people who won't let an elitist political class bully them around and take their freedom.

 

It was never the idea to create a United States of Europe. It was meant to be a free trade zone, not a bureaucratic monster where 85 % of the laws are made centrally.

This is correct. But the original concept was not a "United States of Europe" with a centralized government with as many competencies as the US government for the USA. Never. Some Brussels bureaucrats wish it was like that. Sweet Lou is clueless, once again.

 

That was Winston Churchill in his famous '46 speech.

The fact is that the EU is an economic boom to Europe despite the complaints. Without it, the European and global economy would be smaller.

 

That was the idea between the European Economic Community. That it was about trade and tariff free access between members. But then it turned into the EU, which has its own parliament, institutes its own laws, wants to build its own army and has its own foreign policy. That's not what those countries signed up for.

But at least you're honest about the EU a project about federalization of member states. You should tell that to as many Europeans as possible because most aren't aware about it.

 

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Ignorance is labeling a political movement that you do not understand as xenophobia. The racism/xenophobia smear is such an intellectually bankrupt rebuttal from the left. The UKIP party and the Leave movement in Britain are for self determination and sovereignty for the British people. They don't want un-elected bureaucrats from Spain or Greece making decisions for what's best for their people. You cannot have a country without having border control and immigration control.

The mere mention of any type of new laws or even enforcement of existing immigration laws draws catcalls of racism from the left. The racial smear accusation is one that elicits raw emotions and often carries with it a presumption of guilt before any facts are even put forth. It's a dangerous weapon, and one that should only be wielded in rare circumstances when one is dealing with certainty. Unfortunately, the racial smear approach has become the knee-jerk default response for the left over the past several years, goaded on by an agenda-driven media who is all to willing to assist. It's a sickening approach to "debate" that is beginning to backfire on the dishonest people who have abused its use.


GOOD DAY

 

I mean they did sign up for it. They weren't forced into it. And countries desperately wanted to be part of the EU.

I don't know how people want to get around the regulations. The whole idea of truly having free trade requires consistent regulations. If each state is left to define their own regulations, then you don't have free trade. If you take the regulations away then you are forcing member states to not be able to regulate what goes into their countries and leave their citizens exposed, and also give their products a competitive disadvantage.

So either the EU disbands and member states are free to create their own regulations - which is if you want to support great - but there will be a net negative economic impact from that.

 

Great, now you've done it. Expect more transmissions from Ayn Rand Fantasy Land.

 

They signed under false pretenses or there's been a material change in circumstances regarding the arrangement. Most Europeans don't know they're in a United States of Europe and that's fact.

I don't see your point regarding regulations. If you take regulations away you're not forcing anything. Member states will be able to decide what level of regulation they want and how it suits their economy. Likewise, they'll export whatever quality of goods they want. The EU can't handle that on the basis that Europe is so diverse culturally and that it's mired in bureaucracy. And it's being missed that this is a private sector problem. It's the public that creates trade and wealth, not politicians. If a product is no good, nobody will buy it but that also spurs innovation.

Here's a good expository doc. on the EU:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/44YTTyQKyJQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

I am not interested in the Leave campaigns propaganda pieces.

Look, it's fine. England exited, but guess what - if they don't abide by the EU regulations, they won't be able to trade with the EU as a single market. So nothing has changed!

That's why it's so silly to exit. From a regulatory standpoint, it makes zero difference.

 

If you're making a statement for the relevance of regulation, that's another case entirely. Of course regulation should exist but there is a way to do it. When regulation stifles industry, there's a problem. When the regulations cross into protectionism, there's a problem. And with the way the EU works, the volume of law it passes per day (est. 4/min.) that's not debated and not proposed by its own Parliament, either, is not the way to go about it.

 

If it's material from an opposing viewpoint it's automatically a propaganda piece right? None of it is at all factual.

What the heck is it with the single market anyway? The single market used to matter in a time when heavy tariffs existed. Globalization has happened and those level of barriers have disappeared. Everyone sells to the EU - China, the US. They lose money from the 50 million pounds a day they pay to be in that market. They're better off just trading with the EU under WTO rules. That said, if worse comes to pass and Britain and the EU do not get a tariff free deal, the EU will be worse off. Britain is their largest exporting partner now and the EU sells more to Britain than Britain sells to the EU. German cars would be absolutely decimated not being able to sell to Britain competitively.

 

Just wait 10 years, we can then decide if BrExit is good for England or not.

 

Sweet Lou is literally wrong about everything.

 

Yes. The EU became a trading block that was just a bit bigger than the U.S., allowing for some marketing spin and greater power in trade negotiations. That the block was just bigger than the U.S. (and North America, but by and large that is the U.S., economically) was not a coincidence. I think it was the impetus. The other factors were perhaps important, but secondary.

 

Stifle industry? That's a myth that is created by those who wanted to leave. The reality is that the EU fights against over-regulation that stifles industry:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/eu-warns-on-over-regulation-of-companies-such-as-airbnb-uber-1464861605


Can you please point to the EU regulations that are stifling growth and industry?