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Texas liberals shamefully protest Perry's measures to safeguard women's health
Tags:  2013, abortion, action, bills, crack, deal, death, debate, democrats, georgetown, houston, houston texans, justice, legislation, president, republicans, rick perry, support, t-shirt, texans, texas, women, work Tags
Northside Storm is offline Old 07-02-2013, 10:25 PM   #341
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Originally Posted by bingsha10 View Post
actually they probably would.
^See previous post for why they wouldn't.

In any case, it doesn't even have to go that far, I don't think the Supreme Court is in any mood to grant cert to such sensitive cases anyways. Federal appeals courts know what's up!

http://rhrealitycheck.org/article/20...-abortion-ban/

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On Tuesday a panel of judges of the U.S. Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals permanently struck down an Arizona law banning all abortions at 20 weeks, calling the extreme measure “unconstitutional under an unbroken stream of Supreme Court authority, beginning with Roe and ending with Gonzales.”

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Northside Storm is offline Old 07-02-2013, 10:41 PM   #342
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for those of you tempted to cite Gonzales---a quick reminder---

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The Supreme Court's decision upheld Congress's ban and held that it did not impose an undue burden on the due process right of women to obtain an abortion, "under precedents we here assume to be controlling," such as the Court's prior decisions in Roe v. Wade and Planned Parenthood v. Casey.
but try arguing that a ban would not impose an undue burden on the due process right of women to obtain abortions. I want to see the litigant who has the balls or lack of sense to do that.

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Commodore is offline Old 07-02-2013, 11:17 PM   #343
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Northside Storm is offline Old 07-02-2013, 11:20 PM   #344
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Originally Posted by Commodore View Post
...you do realize the distinct irony of deriding government intervention by upholding the support of a government ban on abortion, do you?

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Commodore is offline Old 07-02-2013, 11:30 PM   #345
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Originally Posted by Northside Storm View Post
...you do realize the distinct irony of deriding government intervention by upholding the support of a government ban on abortion, do you?
protection of individual rights, namely the right to one's own existence, is a morally legitimate function of government few would deride
 
CometsWin is online now Old 07-02-2013, 11:37 PM   #346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Commodore View Post
protection of individual rights, namely the right to one's own existence, is a morally legitimate function of government few would deride
Can you name the legal rights of a fetus for me?
 
Commodore is offline Old 07-02-2013, 11:48 PM   #347
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Originally Posted by CometsWin View Post
Can you name the legal rights of a fetus for me?
similar to those of an infant

But no right can exist without the basic right to one's own existence.

Quote:
But there’s something else that happens at around the 20 week mark: the unborn can distinguish sounds. The first sound they will hear is the voice of their mother. In the weeks to come it will be a soothing and recognizable sound, distinguishable from all the rest. They will respond to it and react to it, to changes in volume and conversation. Much later, they will even be able to recognize tones of voice. But at the twenty week mark, there is only the formless sound. The child cannot understand what she is saying. They cannot detect the difference in tenor when she makes the call, and schedules the appointment, and takes them from the waiting room into the operating room where they will die. They only recognize it as a mother’s voice, full of promise, enveloping them – familiar, reassuring, safe.
Read more: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art...#ixzz2XxEkfTTs
 
Northside Storm is offline Old 07-02-2013, 11:57 PM   #348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Commodore View Post
protection of individual rights, namely the right to one's own existence, is a morally legitimate function of government few would deride
well, except for the girls in the picture you posted

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Northside Storm is offline Old 07-03-2013, 12:00 AM   #349
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Originally Posted by Commodore View Post
similar to those of an infant
Why is the recognition of sound the marker for when an abortion becomes acceptable or not?

i thought something like the age of viability worked, though you may or may not have missed 40 years of court rulings on the subject.

If indeed, a fetus should have the same rights as an infant, are abortions not infanticide/murder? Should the mother be imprisoned and/or executed as the case may be in Texas?

inquiring minds want to know what the implications are for your bold stance on prenatal rights, and whether or not you will walk the walk and think out the implications of what you are purporting. Several haven't. They like to focus on how mushy and cute a fetus is---that is clearly not the issue at hand.

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CometsWin is online now Old 07-03-2013, 12:40 AM   #350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Commodore View Post
similar to those of an infant

But no right can exist without the basic right to one's own existence.



Read more: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art...#ixzz2XxEkfTTs
A fetus is certainly human but a fetus isn't an infant just like an infant isn't a teenager and a teenager isn't an adult.

If 20 weeks is the viability point for legal abortion i have no problem with that. i dont need emotional peddling of stories on mommy's voices to make an informed decision on viability. If that's the science it's good enough for me.

However, why does a fetus at a stage unaware of itself have a right to exist that overrides a woman's actual Constitutional right? You cannot define a person at conception when that "person" has not yet reached self-awareness. How do you ascribe the right to exist to a fetus that doesn't know he exists? For a human, existence and self-awareness are much the same thing.

Last edited by CometsWin; 07-03-2013 at 12:53 AM.
 
DaleDoback is offline Old 07-03-2013, 12:41 AM   #351
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Originally Posted by Commodore View Post
Nice. Using children as protesters........Parents should be locked up for child abuse.

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Commodore is offline Old 07-03-2013, 06:24 AM   #352
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well, except for the girls in the picture you posted
I doubt they've given much thought to the subject at that age.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Northside Storm View Post
Why is the recognition of sound the marker for when an abortion becomes acceptable or not?
oh I'd say the marker is far sooner, but it is an indicator of cognition, of basic human faculties, individual sensations not shared by the mother

Quote:
i thought something like the age of viability worked, though you may or may not have missed 40 years of court rulings on the subject.
I wouldn't blindly follow Anthony Kennedy's dictat on what constitutes human life because he postures as a black robed authority on the subject. You keep appealing to authority as a substitute for debate and discussion. Too often we let them treat us like children and decide the big moral issues for us.

Quote:
If indeed, a fetus should have the same rights as an infant, are abortions not infanticide/murder?
of course

Quote:
Should the mother be imprisoned and/or executed as the case may be in Texas?
Imprisoned (along with the abortionist)

Quote:
Inquiring minds want to know what the implications are for your bold stance on prenatal rights, and whether or not you will walk the walk and think out the implications of what you are purporting. Several haven't. They like to focus on how mushy and cute a fetus is---that is clearly not the issue at hand.
The issue at hand is human life and the characteristics that define it. Pain, cognition, sensation, unique DNA.

Kermit Gosnell is what happens when you don't think our the implications of what you are condoning. He's more visible because it was happening outside the womb, but there's no moral difference if it happens moments before, hidden from view.
 
Northside Storm is offline Old 07-03-2013, 07:06 AM   #353
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Originally Posted by Commodore View Post
I doubt they've given much thought to the subject at that age.
did the woman who fixed that sign up think about it? Did you when you posted the picture?

Quote:
I wouldn't blindly follow Anthony Kennedy's dictat on what constitutes human life because he postures as a black robed authority on the subject. You keep appealing to authority as a substitute for debate and discussion.
ummmmm...did someone not teach you how rule of law works?

In any case, your whole qualm on moral issues breaks down when instead of ruining one life, you want to ruin two, no wait three---

duly noted about how you want to imprison women for getting abortions because of your lack of thought and consideration on the subject---you pat yourself on the back for thinking of the "great moral issues of the ages"---except your thoughts start and end at fetuses are mushy and cute, and you haven't even bothered to look up prenatal development! If you had---you would know fetuses develop sensation to pain at the end of the second trimester (27 weeks)

Quote:
BIRMINGHAM, England, April 14 - Fetuses are physically incapable of feeling pain until the end of the second trimester, and unlike newborn children have not developed the processes that would allow them to recognize pain as a signal of a harmful encounter, a researcher here asserted.
And if you're positing that fetuses have cognition (which is VERY different from sense recognition), when at 27 weeks the nervous system has just been fully developed enough to control some body motions?

thank god rule of law defers to authorities on the subject. LOL to dictat---and LOL to focusing your ire on Justice Kennedy. He's probably the justice with the closest ideological sense to you, if you'd taken the time to look that up.

---But Commodore, I get ahead of myself. We've established you can think outside the framework of fetus=cute. Great job. Now that we're here, and you want to imprison the woman and the abortionist---what is suitable? Life without parole, no? You keep on ranting on and on about how a fetus is similar to an infant. murder an infant and you go to the john for life, that's for certain. Can we clearly establish that instead of ruining one life, you want to ruin three?

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Northside Storm is offline Old 07-03-2013, 07:09 AM   #354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Commodore View Post
protection of individual rights is a morally legitimate function of government few would deride
fyi, this was the basis of Roe v. Wade.

But anyways.

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rocketsjudoka is offline Old 07-03-2013, 05:27 PM   #355
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Commodore View Post
similar to those of an infant
Would you grant citizenship rights upon conception?

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basso is offline Old 07-03-2013, 05:37 PM   #356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CometsWin View Post
Can you name the legal rights of a fetus for me?
maybe Satan can.


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bobmarley is offline Old 07-03-2013, 05:41 PM   #357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CometsWin View Post
A fetus is certainly human but a fetus isn't an infant just like an infant isn't a teenager and a teenager isn't an adult.

If 20 weeks is the viability point for legal abortion i have no problem with that. i dont need emotional peddling of stories on mommy's voices to make an informed decision on viability. If that's the science it's good enough for me.

However, why does a fetus at a stage unaware of itself have a right to exist that overrides a woman's actual Constitutional right? You cannot define a person at conception when that "person" has not yet reached self-awareness. How do you ascribe the right to exist to a fetus that doesn't know he exists? For a human, existence and self-awareness are much the same thing.
So if a loved one of yours is in an accident one day and goes into a vegetative state, because they have no self awareness they should be offed?

When our baby was in the womb even early on you were able to see her personality as she responded to our voices and even to our touch.

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CometsWin is online now Old 07-03-2013, 05:58 PM   #358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobmarley View Post
So if a loved one of yours is in an accident one day and goes into a vegetative state, because they have no self awareness they should be offed?

When our baby was in the womb even early on you were able to see her personality as she responded to our voices and even to our touch.
Not comparable. That's someone that has had self-awareness and is viable as opposed to a fetus that has never had self-awareness and is not viable. People who require machines to stay alive are allowed to die every day.
 
bigtexxx is offline Old 07-03-2013, 06:13 PM   #359
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Originally Posted by CometsWin View Post
Not comparable. That's someone that has had self-awareness and is viable as opposed to a fetus that has never had self-awareness and is not viable. People who require machines to stay alive are allowed to die every day.
lol your side's rationalization changes by the day

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CometsWin is online now Old 07-03-2013, 06:32 PM   #360
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lol your side's rationalization changes by the day
What was my rationalization yesterday? I would say its self-evident that once someone is born that they're a person with rights. Apparently you disagree.

Your "side" is all emotional on abortion but that is somehow always missing when it comes to addressing the poor or the homeless or the sick or children in poverty or education or healthcare. It's a remarkable Jekyll and Hyde act.

I can't remember the last time one of your posts was anything other than some snide drive by quip with no substance whatsoever. You should work on that.
 

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