The easiest way to handle the situation is to reaquire the pick from the Nets. They appear willing to move it for cap space. Something the Rockets should strongly consider.
Bima, this is interesting comment. I know teams are oh so reluctant to trade unprotected first round picks. But how unlikely is it really to get one if Dragic was traded to a perennial championship team? Would the Lakers not give us their unprotected 2013 pick in some minor deal that netted them Dragic? Or the Heat - Dragic + 2nd rounder for Cole + Miami 2013 unprotected first rounder? Those might not be enough value for Dragic... I'm not sure, but just throwing it out there. I know it seems unlikely to get a fully unprotected first round pick, but if Morey is swinging and missing at the trade deadline, and we know we're losing Dragic anyway to free agency, why not pick up a late first round future pick that at least temporarily for one more year clears up the obligation problem, while also making the team worse, likely driving it into the lottery? Again, this is the "tank" approach, but some of us are firmly in that camp!! :grin:
Yeah, I've thought about that, too. With "having cap space" (either for free agents or trades) appearing like such a high priority for the team, I'm not so sure they make that move this week. However, if the Rockets miss the playoffs and keep their own pick this year, I could definitely see a 2012 offseason trade where the Rockets take on, say, Johan Petro ($3.2M next season, expiring in 2013) in exchange for a return of the Rockets' future pick obligation from New Jersey. I'm thinking that Dragic would net the Rockets a late 2012 first round pick, with the Lakers, IMO, making the most sense. (Also, I think Miami may be hamstrung from offering up any future first round picks, let alone unprotected ones.) Is it possible that the Lakers, who are looking more and more like they'll have home-court in the first round, could make the pick their own unprotected 2012 pick? Possibly, but not likely. At best, it's probably the better of the Mavs' (top-20 protected) pick or the Laker's (lottery-protected?) pick, with the obligation moving to 2013 if neither pick is available. More likely, it'd be the worse of those two picks. I don't think trading Dragic for an UNPROTECTED pick is highly likely (with the express purpose of opening up the Rockets to trade their own pick if it's, say, picks 10-14), unless they trade with Oklahoma City. But I'd probably rather just get a likely better pick for Dragic and then wait and see if the Rockets make the playoffs or not this season.
Right now the NY pick is the 9th pick in the draft. Looks like for the rest of the season it will fluctuate between #9th, 10th and 15th.. Morey should do everything he can to help Milwaukee beat out NY. There is a potential 6 spot jump in the pick. Oh, and go Kyrie Irving!! Half game back.
I never thought they would have this losing streak after Lin emerged to change the whole culture of the team. Yes, I joked about Melo poisoning the chemistry again, but I didn't really believe it. Well, I guess you should never underestimate a selfish player. Looks like it is going to go down the wire between Knicks, Cavs, and Bucks. Very interesting race.
So did I. The Knicks have the toughest schedule remaining out of all the 3. The Cavs are in the middle and the Bucks have, i think, the easiest out of all of them. IMO the Bucks will grab that 8th spot and the Knicks will fall to 9th.
Wow! Do I really want to tackle this. You write so eloquently and you surround it with a certain lawyeresque flair making it difficult to argue but we are talking apples and oranges or at least apples and pears. You want to keep rebuilding on the fly and I want to scrap the project and start anew. I am saying this team as it is constructed will maintain mediocrity at best fro many years. There is no one in the free agent market in the next 2 years that can make a diference that will sign here. When is the last time a small market stoled a great free agent away from another team. We got lucky to even trade for a player like TMac and he was flawed when he got here. Small market teams that win draft their star. Morey thought he could change that. He thought he could convince one star to want to play here and lead us to the promise land. That was a little naive but this post is not to bash Morey. You talk about flexibility. Flexibility for what. If we make the playoffs we are mediocre again and your plan gives us more flexibility in the 2012/13 season. I do not want flexibility in in 2013 to trade for a good player that helps us maintain our mediocrity. I want to tank now. I want to ship everyone we can in the next 24 hours that is not a part of our long term future. I haven't thought this out completely but a trade that sends Bear and Lee for Bogut (I'd like to keep Lee), a trade that dumps Martin, a trade that moves Scola helps us to improve our draft status. We could end up with the 9th and 10th pick. Maybe we could move in to a higher spot. Maybe not. The point is we have a direction. Rebuild through the draft. Of course it is not limited to the draft. You use all options and I know Morey is smart enough to do that. I am not sure if you understand what I am saying so let me spell out... This team as it stands is going nowhere. It's time to gut it. Stop trying to do a patch job. Now how exactly you do that can be debated but IMO keeping Scola Martin with Lowry together keeps us mediocre for many years. As much as I like Lowry, you can not build a championship around Lowry. And I am not advocating trading him either. I am just saying we need a player to build around and I am suggesting we gut the team and fill it with youth and see if we can pick a star in the draft in the next 2 or 3 years. IMO that gives us a lot more flexibility because we are not stuck trying to maintain a mediocre team and anything goes. By the way it's definitely not just you but it's definitely not me.
Getting the 8th pick would be ideal. Any higher and I'd worry about the Knicks getting into the top 3 via lotto. And trading up from the eighth pick to say, fourth or fifth, wouldn't be so difficult. It's really too bad that Varejao and Bogut are injured, because with them healthy it would be almost certain that the Knicks would finish below them.
Wait a minute, OMR! That's NOT what I said. I'm merely talking about the benefits of making the playoffs this year in the limited context of getting rid of the NJ pick obligation and the flexibility it would afford going forward, INCLUDING in an all-out rebuild. Take another look at my post. I specifically mention the benefits of my approach as it relates to TRADING for a star, NOT signing one. I actually think we're in agreement on your point above (although I'm trying to hold out a little bit of hope in that department, but not enough to sway me too far from our shared point of view here). OMR, once again, my prior post was not about "keeping the status quo" by any stretch. Changes need to be made to this team before next season. I'm all in favor of a re-build effort. It's just that a re-build with flexibility will be far easier to attain if the Rockets happen to make the playoffs this season. We don't necessarily have to have Kevin Martin or Luis Scola on this team even next week. I'm just talking about "making the playoffs this year" as a benefit to the overall re-building effort, be it through the draft OR via trade for a (real!) star in the future.
Looking again after a long hiatus at nbadraft.net I was completely taken back by the free fall of Baylor's Perry Jones. Wasn't he projected as a top 5 pick lat year if he had come out? But there he is on the board at # 17. The other surprise is Illinois' Meyers Leonard. True center from a great conference and a quality program. On their board at #13. So Bima, can't we tank just a little? My mouth waters just thinking about developing a front line of Leonard, Montiejunas and Jones. They would average 7 feet. They are all mobile. They are all true athletes. By 2015 who knows? Well I can dream can't I?
To answer your question: Yes, you can dream. Hey, if it just happens to play out that the Rockets miss the playoffs and end up drafting Jones and Leonard, I certainly won't be crying about it. I'm pretty sure that Morey won't, either. He knows that either way, he's going to end up with SOMETHING at least decent. I'm just saying that, in the long term (which is what this franchise should be focusing on), the logical (albeit ironic) solution is to make the playoffs this season.
I completely understand your position good sir. Logically I completely agree with it, but that does not mean I have to like it. LOL. That is the sports fan in me.
Okay I think you kind of put yourself out on a limb here and you're now in lawyer mode trying to win a case that in your heart of hearts you know is wrong. But let's keep it simple. You think the flexibility going forward of losing the pick this year as opposed to losing it later is more valuable than the pick itself this year. You believe that handicaps us going forward in future deals. That is a nice argument but it makes no real sense. Think about it drafting now is like getting an interest free loan. If it is such the disadvantage as you suggest than why doesn't Morey just give them our lottery pick this year. I have no doubt the Nets would gladly accept it and waive all future obligations. I can assure you Morey would never do that. Because it is stupid. And it is stupid because a bird in the hand is more valuable than two in the bush. You clearly overrate that flexibility issue and undervalue the possibility that 2 draft picks give us 2 chances to find a gem or a chance to move up higher in a better draft than 2011. (BTW what draft guys have you been listening too. I would suggest watch the players. Read draft express. I am not even talking the euro guys that always have a few gems but not enough film for me to see. Oh and don't mention Donatus, he should have been a lottery pick knowing what we know now. Definitely better than the Morris brothers.) I also think our chances our better that we have the 13th and the 10th pick than what you suggest but that's not even the issue. My point is gut the team build around youth and start now. That will guarantee us even another year keeping our pick and losing your so called flexibility. I want to lose next year or be amazingly surprised that Donatus and Morris became stars and our team somehow became great overnight. Either way works for me. Just gut the team to do it. Doing that insures there will be more minutes to play Morris and Parsons and Donatus and Ppat and our draft picks. I would even go as far as paying Llull enough to entice him to come over now as opposed to waiting another year. I do all that to start rebuilding now.
First of all, I'm not exactly in love with your tone, sir. (In GEICO Caveman voice) Second, I am not defending a position I know is wrong. I'm defending a position I think may be a little better than yours, in my opinion. No need to be rude about it. I even admitted that your opinion was also completely valid. Third, you might be right that I overrate the flexibility afforded by getting rid of the pick obligation this year. Or you might be wrong. We're (for the most part) engaging in a good-mannered, high-level debate over two interesting positions. Fourth, my view of "using that flexibility to our advantage" is to potentially model our rebuild after New Jersey. Even if you tear it down, you'll have a 2013 pick that could potentially be in the top-5, which would either allow you to use that pick on a potential future star OR trade it at the 2013 trade deadline in a package for an established star (NOT a "patch-work solution"). Again, two very valid viewpoints. Good debate, sir.
I think that Montiejunas answered all the questions that kept him from being a top 5 pick last year. 20 pounds more muscle? Check. Can he rebound like a demon? Check. Motivational issues? No more. Even in this years stacked draft I can't think of more than 5 players I would rather have. Morris is trade fodder at this point. Got on the same court as Parsons in training camp and never saw anything else but NBDL. Nadda NBA game film on him - hopefully we can sucker someone in a trade. Llull? We can hope. I fully expect Morey to trade Dragic to the LAL for a low first round pick. But there are those pesky buy out clauses that NBA teams can only contribute $500K to (is that right??). Given the depth of this draft I don't think that we have to tank hard or far to get great picks. See my discussion up a few posts. Lowry's bacterial infection may get us over half way there. To sum it up I see no reason for a roster dump at this point. And we can all hope that Lin shines in NY while they continue to lose. Hate the Knicks but I hope the best for Lin. Sports is to a large degree about feel good stories.
No tone here. Just stating the obvious, your argument is weak. Very weak. Think about Bima. You're a smart guy. That so called flexibility disappears as soon as the season ends and we do not make the playoffs. You then have to ask yourself which is more valuable a 2012 guaranteed lottery pick or a 2013 future draft pick that Morey is certain to lottery protect. Which can get you more in a draft day trade. Clearly you over value flexibility.
If we help Milwaukee by taking bogut and sjax I wonder if we could take their first rounder. Then I'd go to n.o. And take
Do you think the Nets would lottery protect their first round pick this year if doing so prevents them from acquiring Dwight in a trade? Of course not. They'd be happy to send an unprotected lotto pick. While I agree with you that such a scenario for the Rockets next trade deadline is a complete guess and not extremely likely, I at least concede that Bima's position is perfectly reasonable and valid, and if we had a horrible team at that point, despite some ok assets (Lowry, Martin, Scola), and trading those assets plus our unprotected pick for that year could net us some great young player, that would sure suck not to be able to do it because we were still obligated to NJ. it is NOT a weak argument. That said, I agree with you that such a scenario panning out is very unlikely. The team will continue to be decently mediocre with our assets.. which is the problem.
