BOKI gets career night, 1 game after National TNT game

Well there you have it! What more could anyone want than a fun team to watch? That settles it - Dakota is right, Adelman is a much better coach than JVG.

 

I think it has something to do with the way JVG pick his players and how he plays them.

JVG always chooses the sure things and very reluctant to explore the unknown. It is like the way ppl choose how they invest. JVG is that typical conservative investor who are much more comfortable with 5% CD than stocks which he knows little about. It reflects in the way he picks and plays his players. They are usually less talented but hard workers and willing to do what JVG tell them to do.

Nobody can't really fault him for that. Every coach has his own coaching style. And he is doing this rather successful this year. Unfortunately Rox's goal is to win a championship, not just make the playoffs or win a first round or second round. Their goal is to win a championship, quick. Then there will be someone (like myself) questioning if he is good enough. Because you know very few ppl become millionaires by investing in CDs. They are stable but the returns are limited. That is why there are people in this Boki thread or other countless VSpan threads arguing and urge JVG to play those prospects more, to invest the unknown a little bit more. Maybe someday Rox will reap huge returns. That is all. Those so called "JVG haters" don't really hate JVG because he steals their wives. Many of them are just afraid that current Rox is not good enough to win a Championship in the near future. They want JVG to take a chance on young players and they want Rox to get better.

Of course someone will bring up the fact that Rox have T-Mac and Yao, two superstars, blah, blah. That is an entire different topic to debate. But here I just throw a couple facts: 1. T-Mac and Yao themselves have never won a playoffs series, combined a total 0 playoffs series wins. One has played in this league for five years and one has played near ten. Both haven't won a playoff series yet (personally I think it is amazing). And everyone knows winning a playoffs series is just the first step towards Championship. 2. T-Mac and Yao have yet shown they can play on top of their games together, consistently. The one plays well, the other usually struggles. IMO, JVG has yet to find a way to really mesh them together.

We should all wait and see how they play in this playoffs season. But I am sure JVG's coaching debate won't stop until Rox win a championship, no matter how much you love him.

 

As I said " I Believe Adleman is a better coach"

It is my opinion......

How many teams has Adleman taken to the finals, vs JVG?

And 2 or 3 more wins a year can be the difference between homecourt and not getting homecourt.

I like Adleman better, so what.....you guys like JVG better....good for you.

So, wtf does it matter?

DD

 

thacabbage, among other delusions and misconceptions, DaDakota operates under the assumption that Adelman is a master of the fabled "up-tempo" offense, and thus a genius of extreme magnitude. Of course a reasonable person would check out the offensive numbers of Adelman's current team and see that they not only operate at a lower offensive efficiency than the Rockets, but they manage to do it at a slower pace.

But don't worry, JVG is growing on him! Oh, I hope he grows more.....

 

Adelman: 2 teams in 16 seasons
JVG: 1 team in 9 seasons

 

and geee

imagine that


ZERO wins for the Messiah Adelman

true, VG has zero also, but Id wager he is MUCH closer to it than Adelman will be anytime soon.

 

I don't think JVG bypasses all-stars in favor of CBA scrubs who are "hard workers". Our roster has been (and always will be) limited because of two superstar contracts... and you can't fault JVG for failing to get something out of our major FA acquistions (namely the gutless wonder Swift, or the fatzo Bonzi). We got stuck with Howard, and he's gotten the most out of him that he could... same goes for Mutombo (who's still the ideal backup center). And people forget the level that Sura was at before he got hurt.

The only questionable move in the last 3 years, for me, has been picking up Rafer Alston. JVG likely wants a PG who can bring the ball up quickly, doesn't commit turnovers, and can consistently hit an open shot. While he has his faults, Rafer has improved his overall level of play since he first came here... and now that Yao+T-mac is back, he can finally be more of the facillitator he was supposed to be (not a key scorer that he's sometimes forced to be).

Additionally... its not like he'd ever bypass picking up a Mike Bibby or Chris Webber in a trade like the Kings did. And, I'm sure he'd start playing Novak some minutes once he bulks up and works on defense/rebounding (like Peja did). They just need to find a trading partner that is as dumb as the Grizzlies were to trade Bibby.

As for failing to get Yao+T-mac playing at a high level together, the closest he got was the end of 05... where the T-Mac + Yao pick and roll was unstoppable in the playoffs (and they both went off for 20+ points each multiple games).

Yao started playing at his highest level once T-mac was already hurt, and when T-mac finally put some distance between the back problems (and got back to an MVP level), Yao has been hurt.

Believe me... I'm excited as ever to have them both back playing at the highest level either has been at since they first came together. T-mac goes off for 35 the other night, Yao goes off for 37 tonight... both effortless wins.

 

You are trying too hard...

Of course, this would be kind of hard to do for that reasonable person as Adelman does not have a current team.

 

You guys are so funny.....

I like Adleman better than JVG.......so what?

If you like JVG better, good for you......just preference.

Turn off the haterade.....we are dealing with opinions.

And Sam, please stop making assumptions about why I like Adleman over JVG, it has nothing to do with UP-Tempo play....I just prefer Adleman....

My biggest beef with JVG is that I think both his offense and defense are easy to figure out in a playoff series.

Sure, they work in the regular season where teams have one or two days to prepare for them, but come playoff time, when other teams have 4-7 games against each other, I think JVG's system will be picked apart after an adjustment period.

And, I don't recall JVG making all that many adjustments to counter people like Avery.

But whatever, it is my opinion....you guys are free to feel differently.....and I hope I am wrong and JVG is a championship coach.

Oh well, time will tell.

DD

 

I really hate to pile on you because I don't think it's right. But if this debate is going to keep going, I pretty much am just hoping to show you what they're talking about.

It could very well be that you think you're saying something different than you actually are. Your response above was to someone saying that Adelman's record only equates to a couple of wins a season. But the response you've written is basically saying "No, I wasn't talking about their actual records...I just think he's a better coach, it's my opinion."

That would be fine. But in actuality, you wrote:

*Check their records*. Then, when confronted with their records, you said that "it was just your opinion" and basically said you weren't talking about their records.



Again, I'm really not trying to attack. And I think everyone should realize that some people use this fan discussion board to just let loose the thoughts flowing in their head. And higher post counts are definitely more likely random thoughts flowing. So let's not assume that every post is carefully reasoned and edited 5 times..

 

I see your point, stats do matter to some people and I wanted to point out that Adleman is no slouch, not to mention Adleman does have a better record, and has been to the finals more often than JVG- so it is not like the opinion is coming out of the blue.

Rick Adleman's coaching record

61% wins during the regular season and .507 in the playoffs.

Jeff Van Gundy's record

.571 during the regular season and .506 in the playoffs.

I only point out there records to show you that Adleman is a good coach...I don't care if people like JVG better, fine by me....I prefer Adleman.

And, I don't recall Adleman quitting on a team when it looked like they were going through hard times.

DD

 

Seems obvious Adelman is the better coach. He has put consistently competitive teams out there.

At this point in our Rockets season I have high hopes, but we will be lucky to win 50 games. We have a lot of talent here-it will not be here forever Jeff.

 

Did JVG quit on us last year?

 

No, but he also knew Yao and Tracy were going to be coming back.

In New York he could see the train wreck coming and bailed.

DD

 

Or, as everyone (including himself) said... the team was no longer responding to him.

He had a HUGE $$$ deal with the Knicks, and left it because he knew he couldn't simply go through the motions for a team that wasn't giving its all (or a team that was so depleted, they had no mental toughness to think they could win).

Its still not as bad as what Larry Brown does... and its no worse than what Phil Jackson does as well.

 

So the team quit on JVG? They got tired of his act?

Probably a bit of that and a bit of he knew there was no way that he could get that team to win.

And I do agree with your point about Larry Brown...who I despise.....

DD

 

Dredged up for laughs to show how consistent DaDakota has been about Nachbar being in the right system, this is from two months ago:

http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?p=2686500&highlight=Phoenix#post2686500

 

Well, when you look at the $$$ he left on the table... what is the incentive for JVG to quit other than being a guy who can't stand players not giving their all, and can't stand losing because players didn't give it their all.

Looking at how the Knicks fared after he left... I can't imagine the players thinking they were "right" in that the coach was holding them back. The players probably didn't feel they were good enough, and JVG is unwilling to coach players who aren't going to give it their all to win every game (which players don't normally do if they have nothing to play for).

The guy appreciates the opportunities he's been given to coach in this league... he doesn't merely take it for granted (which quitting on a team would suggest). He also is a tireless worker, and will go to war for any of his players who work hard for him (and pay fines as a result of that).

JVG admits that he probably should have seen that the team wasn't going to bring it that season, and should have left long before he did.... he admits it was a mistake to believe they could bring it once the regular season started.

In the end, if you still question JVG's loyalty/work ethic... 6 years later... and you use THAT as a reason why you don't like him, you're never going to enjoy this team as much as you could. Also, this is still not different than Phill Jackson taking jobs as a coach of elite teams with 2 superstars in place, or the affore-mentioned Larry Brown (except that in this case, Brown may have stuck it out for the big $$$ in the big city).

 

Nick,

He quit on the team. Left them in the lurch.

Yes he left a lot of money on the table, but once you have enough money to never have to work again it is all a bit moot.

Larry Brown was MUCH worse, but JVG helped build the team he left, and when the going got tough, the tough got going.

He quit - which in my mind is despicable.

And, I am perfectly able to seperate my love for the Rockets and my disappointment that they hired JVG as the coach.

Again, I like some things about JVG - his candor, his setting up the Red Rowdies - his attention to detail- but IMHO, I really would rather have someone else.

DD