Why do MJ fans get offended when (fan, analyst, coach, or player) doesn't mention him as #1- #5

Well..basically 2 seasons b/c he only came back for the final 17 games of the 95 seasons so that's more than a season and a half. Let's not forget he had a broken foot his 2nd season too and only played 18 games that season, starting only 7 when he tried to force the come back early for playoff time.

 

And likewise you can't compare a league that's opened up their rules for offensive players to dominate with free lanes and no hand checking. A league that's dominated by small ball and threes.

 

The league has evolved man. Drop a modern small ball team against the 90s Jordan squads and they'd get shi* on from the perimeter. Don't talk about "muh defense" cause Jordan was out there getting defended by Make a Wish talent players like Craig Ehlo. Extremely diluted league.

We have found a more efficient way of playing ball, the players are better, but the stats are less glamorous.

 

Found it updated
https://hickamsdictum.com/the-g-o-a-t-basketball-index-all-star-edition-vol-1-d86c57575da

 

I love how people like you show your clear bias when you hand pick 1 white guy from an entire career. Go ahead and pick a couple of other white guys to prove your point.


L.

 

Anyone who doesn't include MJ in the all time top 5 deserved to be called out.

If the OP changed the parameter from top 5 to GOAT, then he had a gripe. I do think that there are legit arguments that MJ is not GOAT (although I do NOT think there is a purely objective way to decide once and for all). But not top 5? Are you kidding me?

 

Okay dude, NBA teams back then would be 5-6 men deep in the modern era. Their PF's were trash. The league was garbage and diluted.

Bill Laimbeer was considered an allstar most of his career and he'd get laughed off of a D1 tryout today.

 

And thats the real shame about comparing NBA stats compared to MLB or some other more static game. While athlete performance has gone up over the years in both as conditioning and training gets better and more refined, the rules in the NBA have changed quite a bit, even adding a third way to score nearly 30 years in!

But to say that "Any modern team would **** on the '96 bulls" because the game has changed thanks to experience and technology not available to those in the past is very idealistic. If LeBron was born in 1962 instead of 1984 his game would still dominate, but he would resemble Karl Malone more than what we have today thanks to far more primitive anabolic chicken training and experience we had back then. If Jordan was born in 1990, there is no doubt in my mind he would be the best in the NBA, imagine how good he would be if he started shooting 3 pointers the moment he could walk.

However, we cannot do that, we can only compare players and teams to their opposition, and how they fared against them.

If you put the '27 Yankees against any modern MLB team, they would be annihilated. Yet why are they held in such reverence instead of dismissal? Because the '27 yankees were built to beat teams from 1927, not teams from 2018, same applies to the '96 Bulls. To paraphrase Daryl Morey when asked about the best team of all time, "The '96 bulls would be crushed if they played back like they did in 1996, but if you gave them modern training and in-depth knowledge of how the modern game is played, they take today's (2016-17) Warriors to 6 or 7, 50/50 on wether they win or lose."

 

Is Bill Laimbeer really that much worse than Jusuf Nurkic? How do you know if given modern training he would still suck?

 

One of those annoying argument is that LeBron is bigger and stronger, KD is a 7 footer, so they could had dominated the 90s, MJ has the bigger/wider hands than Kwahi and a superior 4 feet vertical leap

 

[Citation Needed]

 

https://www.topendsports.com/testing/results/vertical-jump.htm

 

Didn't find the citation there, said some were listed on a site called www.vertcoach.com but that domain has expired sadly.

Still, no way Jordan's vertical was THAT much higher than Vince Carter's (43").

 

you can put the effort and measure it yourself, or accept what was published

 

I agree with this entire post. But that's what I do when I compare LeBron to Jordan and vice versa, I picture modern Bron on a 90s court or 90s Jordan on a modern court. I look at overall basketball skill. But to your point yes, if Bird or Jordan were born in 1990 then they'd have evolved differently and dominated differently.

Yes, pick up 84-85 Laimbeer and drop him into 2018 and he'd be god awful. He'd be like washed up Bogut.

If he were given modern training that could be different, but he was still a stiff oaf. Modern training on old school talent is not how I make my comparisons though. If you'd give Magic modern training he'd probably be the GOAT, as his jumpshot would've evolved better.

 

Oh look! Another white guy used as an example.

Bill Laimbeer was a 4x all star. In '83-played 6 minutes. In '84-played 17 min selected as a replacement. In '85 played 11 min selected as a replacement player. '87 played 11 min. In reality he was a 2 time All-Star in a big man dominated league on one of the most popular teams ever and he averaged double doubles as the anchor on top defenses. In that stretch of time he averaged 16 and 12 with a few assists,a steal and a block. It was a different league. Today the rules for position selections are changed as well. Might as well just run a team of point guards in the all star game. In comparison, Al Horford and Kevin Love are 5x all stars. Pau Gasol a 6X all star. Marc Gasol a 3x all star and DPOTY. David Lee is a 2x all star. Jamaal Mcgloire was an allstar in 04. Memo Okur was an all star in 07 as well as Josh Howard. Boozer was a 2x all star. David West was a 2x all star. Mo Williams, Devin Harris and Danny Granger were All stars. Gerald Wallace. Roy Hibbert 2x all star LMAO. Lawl Deng 2x all star. Jrue Holiday. Brook Lopez. Tyson Chandler. Noah. Millsap. Jeff Teague. Your boy KYLE KORVER just 3 seasons ago. Dragic this past season. Get out of here with your nit picking garbage.

It's a popularity contest that's seen tons of questionable fan votings due to popular team and it's seen questionable coaches selections for the bench and injury replacements. Who gives a damn. BJ Armstrong was the leading guard vote and 3rd overall in 94. Grant was selected off the bench for replacement that same year. Popularity of fan vote and playing for a popular team. Everyone knows neither are all stars.

But you're right. The league today is just too big too strong, too fast and too skilled! 5'9 Isiah Thomas averages 30 in this league, he can average 60 in the 90s!

 

My point is you can't really do that, you can't assume Magic would be better today if he were born in 1990. Ben Simmons was born in 1997, NO jumper whatsoever! You can only compare players relative to their performances against their competition, not against teams from the future/past. Jordan prepared to play against teams from 1997, and LeBron prepared against teams from 2017, their performances should be judged by how well they did against their competition, based in hard math instead of the theoretical.

 

Who happened to be the starting C on a 73 win team in your amazingly evolved league.

 

John Salley is one of the few who predicted last offseason that James Harden and Chris Paul will work, be big time Contenders. John Salley deserves to be a unbiased Analyst Without Propaganda, He is really smart and informative.

 

And you gotta give him props as he was the only or one of the only ones IIRC who stayed on the court to shake Jordans hands after they got swept and all the Pistons walked into the locker room with time still left on the clock. He of course rode MJ's coattails to a ring and the greatest team of all time. The 96 Bulls.