Why do MJ fans get offended when (fan, analyst, coach, or player) doesn't mention him as #1- #5

For the same reason some Rockets fans get triggered when somebody says Hakeem isn't the best big man to ever play.

 

I'm telling @tinman on you

 

@tinman

Tim Duncan is the greatest Big man of all Time

 

deserves its own thread, with a poll

 

I think Lebron fans are worse. The man has a built in excuse whether he wins or loses. We watched him quit on his team in this year's finals and his fans didn't skip a beat. Regardless of how good GS is you can't ever stop competing. But in this day in age none of that matters smh

 

That's because David Robinson is the best big man to ever play. The Admiral is in da house

 

I learned that John Salley, Karl Malone, Oscar Robertson, Dr J, Bob Pettit, Bill Walton, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Walt Frazier, and Isaiah Thomas shouldn't be talking about basketball.

 

People have an inherent repulsion towards the illogical.

 

Lmao Kobe stan #1 already quick to the draw to blame LeBron.

 

Calling out a group of NBA fans for being too biased is just silly. Of course there are a subset of MJ fans who overreact but this is true of all fan groups.

Regarding MJ himself, the "old guard" prior to MJ (Oscar, Dr. J, Kareem, George Gervin, etc) never liked him. He was an ultra-flashy perimeter player who hit the NBA like an F5 tornado that wouldn't go away and he paid them no respect. They resented him from the very start. He was a lightening bolt people couldn't stop staring at. To give you an idea of how bad it was, yours truly considered MJ the greatest player of all time BEFORE he won his first championship. That's how insanely good he was! He catapulted the popularity of the NBA to another level.

In response, the old guard went out of their way to disrespect MJ whenever they could. This peaked when Zeke led the Pistons off the court as the Bulls were about to take a 4-0 broom to them and advance to the Finals for the first time. Zeke has never lived this down nor should he.

Once MJ started winning championships, not only did many of the "old guard" hate his popularity (because he gave no credit to them), some of MJ's veteran peers hated him too. Funny thing though: At the same time, many younger players kissed up to MJ his last couple of years with the Bulls. This probably fed even more hatred.

This is why MJ's Hall of Fame speech was so petty and vindictive. Instead of being magnanimous, he was defiant and petty.

I'm not surprised an idiot like Karl Malone would put Pippen and Stockton in his all-time starting 5 but not MJ. John Salley choosing the Logo over MJ does not surprise me.

IMO,

1. Anyone who doesn't put MJ in their top 5 is either ignorant or a hater.

2. The only two other guys who have a legit argument to GOAT are Wilt and LeBron.

 

Anyone who picks their starting 5 is bias towards their "favorites" of their childhood or playing day era. Most players who leave Jordan out almost always have ties to MJ being in their way of glory or MJ eclipsing their own greatness or being buddies with one of the guys that MJ was a rival of so it always just comes across as bitter hate or clear bias. It's not a big deal. It's usually not some well thought out logical top 5 goat list anyway.
For example if Karl Malone really believes having Lebron, Pippen, Oscar and Stockton on 1 team trumps any other team he could have constructed with any combination of MJ, a Magic or Bird or a Shaq or Hakeem or Kobe or Duncan or whoever, then that's his opinion. Who cares about Karl Malone? He's ****ing scum bag.
Though, I totally agree with him on putting LeBron at PF on any all time starting 5, i usually have a really hard time picking a traditional PF over moving LeBron to PF and having a Bird, Pippen or moving Magic up to SF or i'd rather have 2 dominant C twin towers depending on the rules of the era. There's many fun combinations you can play with. Malone, Salley or whoever have their own fun little lists.

What i don't understand is your rant at the end there. You're saying swap MJ out for any other star and they win 6 anyway basically, right? Because outside of Pippen, those other guys were so great and even better than MJ at other things? Then you basically allude to MJ just being a high flyer? Michael Jordan had 1 All-Star teammate his whole career. The great Scottie Pippen. Thats it. Horace Grant the first 3 peat had Tristan Thompson like #'s. He was a role player. Dennis Rodman the 2nd three peat was in his mid 30s and his playoff numbers were terrible and he missed tons of regular season games for them and many times a liability on offense or to the game b/c of fouls/t's/ejections. He was a defensive and rebounding specialist role player. The Bulls were a system of really smart role players who knew their roles and gave maximum effort on both ends of the floor. A direct influence of MJ's leadership and personality.

Magic, Bird, LeBron, Shaq, Kobe, Kareem, Russell. Line it up. The amount of all-star teammates they played with including each other is ridiculous. "LeBron never had stars like Steve Kerr and Judd Buechler" are some of the ridiculous statements i've seen in recent years as time goes on and every single Bulls role player gets built up to super star level just to bring down MJ's greatness and lift up whichever favorite current player over MJ.

Yes, Hakeem is the GOAT Center. Yes, Hakeem had far less all star help through his youth and prime than any other top 10 or hell, even top 20 player of all time. No, Hakeem would not win 6 championships if you swapped MJ with him. No one would. 2 or 3 in 8 years? Sure, i can see that if it's a HOF level efficient scorer with elite defense to pick up the loss of MJ.
It's the same thing people said a decade and a half ago-swap kobe out with any superstar perimeter player and Shaq still leads them to a 3 peat. I used to believe that too. But as time goes on it becomes clear none of those other star perimeter players had what Kobe had.

MJ is the GOAT. #'s. Accolades. Eye test. You name it. If my boy Hakeem also believes it, it just confirms it. And if MJ adores and respects and loves Hakeem and has him as the greatest C, it only confirms it to me that Hakeem is right behind him.

 

When you sit down and watch full games from the 90s of all the great teams, the thoughts "Man, LeBron and KD are just on another level from everyone (including Jordan)" run through your head ALOT.

I don't care if it offends you, but LeBron and KD are just better overall basketball players than Jordan. Players like Harden can also dominate the game like Jordan in stretches. The league is full of all time great talent and everyone refuses to acknowledge it. This is the golden era of basketball in terms of pure talent on the court.

 

Not mine. But let's be honest, you're not watching "full games from the 90s".

 

The entire playoffs from the 80s and 90s are online for you to watch. What do you do during the offseason?

 

Anyone remember that research a fan did 6+ or so years ago excluding players from 50s,60s due to no steals and blocks being kept, and excluded players who hadn't played long enough. Hakeem got the GOAT in his formula just edging out MJ. It was a surprise to see a lot of names on there like Dike or T-Mac. Goes to show the importance of players according to what they brought regardless of how good their teammates were or how flasy or stat sheet stuffing their game was. Would love to see it updated for 2018.

 

Fan is short for fanatic.

 

I'm no jordan nut hugger, and even I would take offense to seeing him outside of a top 5.

If you simply go by the BEST player minute-per-minute on the court, nobody surpasses Jordan. Highest career WS/48 (excluding CP3, who still has 4-6 years to decline) in the regular season and the playoffs.

Only he and Kareem have the honor of putting up THREE seasons EACH of +.300 WS/48, LeBron can claim no such feat. He lead the league in WS/48 EIGHT times, only behind Kareem at 9, and very well could have done it A DECADE STRAIGHT if not for missing a season and a half.

To compare LeBron to him? Perfectly reasonable, the sheer statistical greatness and the volume of LeBron's production has surpassed Jordan and then some.

Kevin Durant? There is no comparison. Outside of relative true shooting % and TREB%, there is NOTHING Durant does that Jordan didn't do better. Jordan was a better defender, a better passer, a better ball-handler, and when you account for the low league TS%, then Jordan isn't that far behind in terms of relative TS%, also remember that Durant averaged 30 a game for two seasons, Jordan did it for his career.

 

I'd love to see how they calculated all of this, albeit having BLK% count for 2.5 times as much as WS/48 and nearly 3 times as much as eFG% makes me raise my eyebrows.

 

You're basically comparing two totally different leagues. The NBA has evolved so much since then, you have to adjust for multiple things like pace of play. You can't just pull numbers from 30 years ago and compare them to a league that plays so much differently today.