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What REALISTIC trades can we make to improve our team?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Hottoddie, May 4, 2003.

  1. Hottoddie

    Hottoddie Contributing Member

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    In my opinion, we can't just stand pat with our current team. We had the nucleus of our team remain healthy all year & they were inconsistent, at best. In the last month & a half, they went 13-11 & lost several key, winnable games down the stretch. In hindsight, all they had to do was win ONE of those games & we'd have been in the playoffs. Too many times we'd see them start to play as a team, only to revert back to their "BallHog" style of play.

    Some of you will try to put all the blame on Rudy & yes, he should shoulder some of the responsibility, but he was just trying to put the best team on the floor to have a chance at winning. Imagine the sh*t storm that would've erupted, if he'd benched either Mobley or Francis, or even both, for any length of time to get their attention. Who do we have as backups, Moochie & Hawkins? :rolleyes:

    What this team needs is a different mind set, a tough PF with a strong low post game, & possibly a better distributing PG. In my opinion, Mobley has to go. He's a solid starting SG, but with the addition of Yao & Mobley's apparent reluctance to pass the ball, he doesn't fit the team anymore. My second belief, is that this team will be much better with Francis moving over to the SG position. He's got the ability to stop & pop the outside shot at will & has the speed to slash to the basket on any given play.

    If we assume that Yao & Francis are untouchable, that doesn't leave us with a lot of high profile tradable players. However, we do have some players that other teams might be interested in.

    The first thing we have to realize, is that we're not going to be able to trade for Brand, Duncan, Garnett, or any other superstar with the players that we'll be offering. We might be able to get Juwan Howard for the mid-level exception, but don't count on it & Malone will most likely sign with the Lakers, Spurs, Dallas, or some other solid playoff contender.

    The generally accepted rule of thumb is that, you don't trade big for small. However, if doing that brings you a perceived, better player or helps you dump an unwanted contract, a team might be willing to pull the trigger. So, we'll have to be creative. I've thrown together several trades that I like & I think they are fair, but (insert my signature here). :D

    Trade #1-leaves us thin at SG, but we can pick up a FA.

    Houston sends Mobley/Cato/Moochie to Atlanta.

    Atlanta sends T-Ratliff/Mohammed(may never play again) to Houston.

    Trade #2
    -only if Portland wants to move Stoudamire & drop some additional salary with Rice's expiring contract.

    Houston sends Mobley/Rice to Portland.

    Portland sends Randolph/Stoudamire to Houston.

    Trade #3
    -Mobley/Davis gives them a nice 1-2 offensive punch.

    Houston sends Mobley to Cleveland.

    Cleveland sends Boozer/Stewart(bad contract) to Houston.

    Trade #4
    -a variation of trade #3.

    Houston sends Mobley/Griffin to Cleveland.

    Cleveland sends Boozer/Mihm/Stewart(bad contract) to Houston.

    Trade #5
    -I only do this trade if they substitue Caron Butler for Ellis or send us this year's top 3 protected lottery pick. Not likely in both cases, but I'd look into it.

    Houston sends Mobley/Cato/Griffin to Miami.

    Miami sends Grant/LaPhonso Ellis to Houston.

    Trade #6
    -my personal favorite.

    Houston sends Mobley to the Clippers.
    Houston sends Taylor to Golden State.

    Golden State sends Fortson/Sura to Houston.

    The Clippers send ZhiZhi/Dooling to Golden State.
    The Clippers send Miller to Houston.


    In this last trade, we might have to send the Clippers a draft pick, but I'd try to get away with sending them Chicago's Drew obligation (2 second rounders). We also might have to include another player, depending on how much it takes the Clippers to resign Miller.

    Houston gets a true PG to pair with Francis & Yao, a solid backup SG in Sura, & a young PF in Fortson. Fortson has a strong low post game & averaged a double-double just last year. He only played in 17 games this year, but it wasn't because he was injured. He must be in the Warrior's doghouse.

    Golden State gets a nice compliment to Murphy's strong low post game with Taylor's better shooting range & would have a nice 6th man off the bench. They'd get a promising young PG in Dooling & since they will most likely lose Arenas to Denver, maybe they'll find lightning in a bottle 2 years in a row. With all the excitement in the Chinese community over Yao, maybe the acquisition of ZhiZhi will bring in more of the Chinese fan base.

    The Clippers get a very good, & inexpensive, SG in Mobley that happens to be good friends with Odom. This might make it easier for them to resign Odom who is, reportedly, one of Sterling's favorite players. They'd also be able to get something for Miller, instead of losing him for nothing, & promote Jaric to the starting PG position.

    This last trade would give us a potential lineup of:

    C: Yao/Cato/Collier
    PF: Fortson/Griffin/T-Mo
    SF: Posey/Rice/Nachbar
    SG: Francis/Sura/Hawkins
    PG: Miller/Moochie(unless, as Doc Rocket indicated, they can void his contract) or FA pickup


    If Fortson rebounds to his form of last year, that would be a solid team heading in the right direction.

    What are your thoughts?
     
    #1 Hottoddie, May 4, 2003
    Last edited: May 4, 2003
  2. rimbaud

    rimbaud Contributing Member
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    How is Mobley for Wang, Dooling, and Miller realistic?
     
  3. Two Sandwiches

    Two Sandwiches Contributing Member

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    Mobley for Tinsley and Bender, like I've said before.
     
  4. Yetti

    Yetti Contributing Member

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    Most of your Trades are for players which wont improve the Rockets very much! I woud rather have ONE great player added to our roster than a bunch of rejects, If we trade players like Mobley or Griffin we must get someone that will improve the Team a great deal. Remember just making the playoffs is not what we are shooting at, we want to go the full distance and get the whole shabang! I would stick with Mobley and Griffin if we cant land the big fish but move Heaven and Earth to get rid of Moochie and Rice.
     
  5. Hottoddie

    Hottoddie Contributing Member

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    Wang played an average of 10mpg, while Dooling played 17.6mpg. They're both reserves that appear to be an after thought on the Clippers. I've read several (most of them here) opinions that Mobley for Miller would be a fair exchange, however I believe that a draft pick would have to be thrown in as well, thus the Chicago Drew obligation that I mentioned. I also mentioned that another player might be needed to make the deal work with Miller's new contract, perhaps Cato.

    Maybe you're right & it is an unrealistic trade, but at least I didn't try to trade Mobley for Miller & Brand. ;)
     
  6. MManal

    MManal Member

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    Hottodie, essentially, I agree with your thinking of the team just not the priority of the needs. I think this team absolutely MUST get a distributor at PG or one of the two wing playmakers (Brent Barry or Lamar Odom), and ship Mobley out. Assuming they have enough assets left after that (which they should), I would pursue getting the tough PF this team could use. In addition, a realiable shooter would help out as well. Here are the players I would like the team to pursue.

    Priority #1: (distributor)
    Lamar Odom, Andre Miller, Tony Parker, Jamaal Tinsley, Brent Barry, Alvin Williams

    I think the most likely out of this category is Odom with Andre Miller probably being second. I would be ok with Mobley and Griffin for Odom and Ely or something along those lines; Mobley and Griffin for Miller plus would be fine also. Tony Parker would probably require Eddie Griffin, but there is no guarantee the Spurs will go this route if they opt for J O'Neal instead of Kidd. Ideally, I would like the Rockets to acquire both Odom and Alvin Williams by using Kelvin Cato as the trade bait to Toronto (apparently Grunwald likes Cato), and the deal I mentioned earlier for Odom.


    Priority #2: (tough PF)
    Brian Grant, PJ Brown, Karl Malone, Dale Davis

    I have always been a big fan of Brian Grant but realize his contract may make it tough for the Rockets to acquire him. I'd actually be ok with any of the players from this group; Brown and Davis are FAs from what I understand, but the Rockets may still have to pull off a sign and trade to get something done b/c they may command more than the MCE. The assets they would have left over after addressing priority 1 would likely be Glen Rice (expiring contract), James Posey (in a sign and trade) and possibly Kelvin Cato.


    Priorty #3: (shooter)
    Jon Barry, Eric Piatkowski, Reggie Miller (maybe)

    I would be happy with any of the players from this category as well, but I really like Jon Barry's game. Barry not only provides excellent shooting touch, but also brings a savvy and intelligence to the game with his adept ball handling and distributing that the Rockets could really use. These players would probably be pursued with the mid class exception.

    Notice, none of these scenarios including pipe dreams like Jason Kidd or Elton Brand. This is to show that there are real plausible options for the Rockets to begin building a juggernaut around Yao and Steve and moving out of the trap of a life sentence in mediocrity.
     
  7. Hottoddie

    Hottoddie Contributing Member

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    We already have 2 potentially great players in Yao & Francis. There aren't many teams that can have 3 great players & still put it all together. Case in point is Portland, the Rockets when we acquired Pippen, & then again when we acquired Barkley.

    Most (if not all) of the championship teams have had no more than 2 superstars surrounded by a bunch of quality role players. Teams like the Celtics with Bird(S), Mchale(R), & Parrish(R), the Lakers with Magic(S), Kareem(S), Scott(R), & Worthy(R), the Pistons with Isiah(S), Dumars(S), Laimbeer(R), Aguirre(R), & Rodman(R), & of course, the Bulls with Jordan(2 stars in one player), Pippen(R), Kukoc(R), & later Rodman(R).

    Besides, we don't have the talent available to go get another star player, unless we trade Francis or Yao, & that would put us right back where we are.
     
  8. arno_ed

    arno_ed Contributing Member

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    the only problem i have, is that we do not know how long it wil take Yao to become a superstar, if it takes him 3 years we wil have to wait for 3 years and miss the play-offs. i agree that we do not need another star. But i do not mind Brand (i know we wil never get him). Lets just hope Yao can become a superstar verry soon
     
  9. rimbaud

    rimbaud Contributing Member
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    Why do you consider Parker and Williams to be distributing PGs? It seems to me that they are score-first types.
     
  10. HtownRocks3

    HtownRocks3 Member

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    You must not watch Spurs basketball. Im not sure about Williams, he is iffy. but Tony Parker is a great point guard. He takes shots he knows he can make. But my vote goes to my

    Cuttino/Eddie

    for

    Jason Williams (white boy)/Stromile Swift
     
  11. New Jack

    New Jack Member

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    I wouldn't say they're score-first types. Maybe they aren't the playmaker pure-point guard that Jason Kidd is, but they're solid guards that makes smart decisions with the ball, don't ever force things, and will only take the shot if open.
     
  12. HtownRocks3

    HtownRocks3 Member

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    I guess they'd be ok. The bad thing is, We have our own Alvin Williams inside of Moochie Norris, it came out and was shining bright last year. I dont know what happened.
     
  13. steddinotayto

    steddinotayto Contributing Member

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    TRADE #1:

    trading a competent (if not erratic) SG, a pretty good backup C for an often injured C and an injured C? i pray to God rockets management don't pull this one off

    TRADE #2:

    How is it realistic to send them cat and an old player for a more than competent PG and an up and coming low post player?

    TRADE #3:

    Why do we need to clog up the foward position again?? And also, Boozer having a decent rookie season might be because he's a top 3 player on his team..which is the cavs....

    TRADE #4:

    Mihm? might as well resign collier

    TRADE #5:

    this is basically just to get grant but look at what we're giving up. too much for a PF whose better days are behind him

    TRADE #6:

    contract-wise can't happen.


    are these more possible than the KG, brand, mcgrady, chamberlain trade talks?? sure but c'mon. you're either a) screwing the other team over or b) screwing us over.
     
  14. MManal

    MManal Member

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    Yup, what New Jack said. I put Alvin Williams and Parker on the list b/c they are steady with the ball and dont make a lot of stupid turnovers/decisions like our guards. They dont make a lot of flashy plays on offense, but just understand how to play the game w/o making many mistakes. Ideally, I'd like to get Alvin Williams and Lamar Odom b/c it would enable the Rockets to add a playmaker on the wing (Odom) and then a solid and steady defensive minded guard that can matchup on 1s and 2s.
     
  15. Yetti

    Yetti Contributing Member

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    Yao Ming has little to no chance of becoming a super Star on the Rockets if the Rockets dont rethink the direction of the team. It might take a rethinking about the value of our present Guards to the direction the Ball Club is going, so that Yao Ming can flourish and develop his game. Its going to take a lot of specialised coaching to bring Yao Ming fully into the NBA game and the Rox seem that they arn't interested in making the effort.At least so far!
    Williams and Odom -great idea but I would still like to see Brand alongside of Yao Ming. It might even take a three way trade that could involve Francis at a last resort.
     
    #15 Yetti, May 4, 2003
    Last edited: May 4, 2003
  16. steddinotayto

    steddinotayto Contributing Member

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    the problem is indecisiveness on the team's part of where to go and what they want to do. do they want to run the team through yao a la the olajuwon years? or do they want to go guard-first and sparingly go to yao? it's obvious that they wanted to do both but couldn't get it done.
     
  17. KeepJuaquin

    KeepJuaquin Member

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    First. Forget Alvin Williams! He's horrible. I don't understand why people would trade Mobley for him. Mobley isn't that bad.

    Brent Barry for Cuttino Mobley yes.

    Lamar Odom for Cuttino Mobley yes. I don't really think Odom is that great either....but with him and Posey at the 2.....we could have a tall lineup. Odom is an average shooter.

    Tough power forward...Alonzo Mourning. Woohoo!

    Shooter....Jon Barry....as a backup.

    The only trade I like is #2.
     
  18. Hottoddie

    Hottoddie Contributing Member

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    Okay, so you disagree with the trades I threw out. Instead of just saying what won't work, how about throwing out some ideas that, in your opinion, will work.
     
  19. steddinotayto

    steddinotayto Contributing Member

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    that's because i have and no one wants to see it.

    you're ideas are more possible than trading for Brand or KG but is it still in the best interest of the team by adding a Mihm or a broken down Ratliff?

    Why don't sign and trade or just sign a player like PJ Brown? he gives you as much as Brian Grant but at a less price.

    it's just seems like you want to dump contracts at all costs or somethin.
     
  20. Hottoddie

    Hottoddie Contributing Member

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    Is it also possible that no one, not even the coaches who had studied Yao's game for some time, really expected Yao to play as well as he did his rookie year? Thus, they were caught in a dilemma of wanting to & being pressured by the media & fans to utilize Yao more in a system that wasn't designed around him, but instead around a guard dominated isolation game. It's being rumored that Cat may be on the trading block, which would indicate to me that the team is moving in the direction of going back to a big man system with Francis at the SG position.
     

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