Oh, come on - Orton possibly excepted, do you honestly believe any of those QBs are "capable of leading a championship-quality roster to the super bowl"? The answer is no. Plus, they're all older and more expensive. Orton, IIRC, signed for $5mm/year - who are you going to cut to bring on Kyle Orton? Where would you like to create another hole on this team? Again, please keep in perspective: we're discussing a player that you hope never sees the field. Other teams are irrelevant. If you have the money and resources to sign a back-up (as we did a few years ago with Orlovsky), great - go for it. But the Texans do not. Further, they have a more than capable back-up already on the roster. You're wasting much too much energy here, cardpire. Name a contender that isn't screwed if QB1 goes down. Without even looking it up, can you name Green Bay's QB2? New England's? Pittsburgh's? Baltimore's? Do you think the Giants are covered with David Carr? With a hard cap, you simply cannot allocate precious resources to a back-up QB. You just can't. Especially if you have a cheap, capable one already on the roster. If Schaub goes down, the team is eventually toast. There isn't a QB out there who can step-in and take us to the same places Schaub can. At least with Yates, you have a guy who might eventually be able to. And that's another issue to consider here: post-Schaub. There much better off developing Yates than sinking costs into Kyle Orton.
he asked me to name qb's. i named 2 that i said would be dirt cheap (sage and feeley). you then said signing a backup for $1mm or less was an option. so you agree with me. guess what i said wasn't so ridiculous after all. cute! (but not believable ) just because you boldly proclaim that you don't care about rep doesn't fool everybody from knowing that you do. sorry that i make the forums worse for you. strange that you haven't blocked me if that's how you feel. it's really simple and only takes a couple seconds to do.
you picked out 1 qb...the most expensive one. what about the others? do you think anybody who is still available is going to sign somewhere for much more, if any, than the vet minimum? doesn't matter anyway, the money is irrelevant as far as our debate goes. we clearly have a very wide gap on our opinions of tj yates anyway. i think every qb i named is a large upgrade over him (at this point in his career). harrell? hoyer? leftwich or batch? don't know ravens. doesn't matter, as i've mentioned a few times, none of these teams have a defense and running game like we do. nor are their quarterbacks hurt as often as ours is. that's why, as crappy as yates is, even he was able to "manage" this team to a 1st round playoff win. there's no doubt in my mind that better backup qbs who can stretch the field and not throw the ball directly to the other team can keep hope alive of getting even further.
Come on, man - those QBs are all, if we're being kind, mediocre: Young - 74.4 career QBR; 29 years old Rosenfels - 81.2; 34 Feeley - 69.1; 35 Hill - 84.7; 32 Campbell - 82.8; 31 Henne - 75.7; 27 Yates - 80.7; 24 Please point out the significant upgrade. And keep in mind: Yates totaled a 97.7 QBR in a playoff game so this notion that they have no chance of winning a Super Bowl with him seems patently silly if you're going to trot out Jason freaking Campbell as a better alternative.... I would bet you every single dime I have that every single GM that signed those deadbeats would trade them for TJ Yates in a nanosecond. Money matters. We're not having a general discussion about the viability of back-up QBs... we're specifically talking about the 2012 Houston Texans, who are, salary cap wise, broke. And that’s another feather in Yates’ cap – he has shown enough potential to at least be in the discussion about Schaub’s heir apparent. There is NO WAY you throw ALL that out for Chad Henne. Sorry, man – that’s not a smart way to run a franchise. Agreed. So if QB1 isn’t among our greatest winning assets – why are you so hyper-focused on QB2 being one? They already have enough to win a playoff game and take a SB-caliber contender on the road down to the final play…. Of the 6 players you listed, 3 have thrown more INTs than TDs in their careers and none, save for Rosenfels (who, of course, played decently in this system), has a higher YPA than Yates in limited action during a lockout-truncated rookie season. And BTW – check the numbers on these guys – they’ve signed for Matt Leinart+-like money. So… for the third time I’ll ask: which current Texan are you willing to release to make room for your “Super Bowl” caliber back-up QB?
give him credit for his 97.7 qbr in a 1st round playoff game at home vs. the worst team to make it into the playoffs, while leaving out the 28.7 qbr vs. the best team he faced last year? none of those other qbs have played in an offense and team 1/10 as good as ours, save for possibly feeley at some point in his eagles' spot starts. rosenfels' qbr was possibly inflated as a product of the system. my eyes tell me that the rest of those qbs are far better than yates (this early in his career), and i think their qbrs would all rise as well. throw what out? i didn't say they should cut yates. qb1 is among our greatest winning assets. doesn't mean we are forced to make the passing game shot to hell if he goes down. and, taking a sb-caliber contender on the road down to the final play isn't the goal. that's the whole point...i'd like a shot to get further than that if schaub gets hurt again. jacoby jones.
as far as the debate i was having with him goes, yes. he thinks yates is good enough, and/or that the dice should be rolled with schaub staying healthy. i'm on the complete opposite end of the spectrum in regards to both of those, and think a better back up should be/should have been a priority.
There’s no need to point it out. None of us have nor ever would argue that he was consistently good last year. As befitting of a 5th round rookie who didn’t have the benefit of an offseason program, partook in an accelerated training camp, a truncated preseason, and was inactive for 10 weeks, he was mediocre last year. But he showed enough potential (ie the Cincinnati playoff game, which is why I pointed it out) to comfortably assume he’ll progress and be better this year with a normal offseason. We don’t know his eventual ceiling; these other guys? We know what they are: mediocre. You should have your eyes checked – AJ Feeley? Bigger question: why invest heavily in a back-up QB if the system as a whole is better than it’s parts? So it’s your contention that with Young, Campbell, Henne, Feeley or Hill, we would have beaten Baltimore? I, along with every single other poster on this forum (who isn't BFFs with Baby Vince), agree to disagree. That's silly. That’s fine, and figured you were probably going to list him. Here’s the issue: I don’t know capology, but I think he’s making… $3MM-ish this year; let’s say you save that by releasing him and spend… $2MM on a back-up QB. Heck, $1.5MM. So now you have Schaub/Hill, or whoever, and he’s throwing to Johnson, Walter and… nobody. There’s literally not another WR on your roster and no PR whatsoever. So who would you like the Texans to sign to replace JJ (WR2/3 + PR) at a cost of $1.5MM? You’ve (IYO) upgraded a position you pretty much had covered and weakened further an already known weak spot. Then we’re having different debates. Sorry, man - but this is why I get so frustrated with you….. Money is very much, absolutely a gigantic part of this discussion. The discussion doesn't exist without it.
when did i mention investing heavily? i absolutely do think we would have beaten them, yes. and how can you possibly say that every single other poster on the forum would agree that "If TJ Yates couldn't beat 'em, none of those guys could either!" THAT is silly. don't know what fa wr's are still available, and i'm assuming/hoping we are drafting one. feel free to list what free agent wrs are still out there though. do you really think any would be such a downgrade from jacoby jones (our #3 wr) that he would cause us to lose games? weakened why? doesn't everybody hate jacoby jones and want him cut? i guess you weren't in that crowd? could easily be addition by subtraction by replacing him, no matter what stiff we replace him with. and: "(IMO) ugraded a position that (IYO) we had covered". what i'm saying is, your views on yates and our need for a backup are so far different than mine, that the debate ends before cap issues are brought into the equation anyway. saying that wasn't meant to bring up a point of contention. disregard it.
Any cost beyond what you’re already paying your perfectly capable 5th round rookie would be considered “heavy”, IMO. Because nobody else on planet Earth thinks that AJ Feeley, Jason Campbell – et al - are better QBs than TJ Yates. They’re lousy. That you’re having to pick on a 5th round rookie QB to boost their status only underscores their complete and utter mediocrity. But, since you mentioned it: anyone on the forum who disagrees, please chime in. I’ve now seen you do this twice in this thread; it's another bad habit: If YOU think signing a back-up QB is a top priority and that we can do so by releasing Jacoby Jones (which is perfectl viable), then it’s up to YOU - not me - to list, name, etc., alternatives. I’m perfectly content keeping TJ Yates – my position doesn’t require releasing anyone and finding a replacement for our WR3 + PR1. And no – simply releasing him doesn’t make us better: he’s an above-average PR and an effective blocker – easily replaceable, sure – but he’d be missed if he’s being replaced by air. But there’s no separation, cardpire. We had this same issue debating Manning – you want to run to a vacuum and pretend there’s no context. Donny has already called you out on it here; so, too, has macalu – this debate is grounded in: THEY HAVE NO MONEY. If you want to have a general discussion about back-up QBs, go ahead. I’m focused on the 2012 Texans, the only team I care about. And I contend – and the team agees with me, btw – that TJ Yates is a more than capable back-up currently with the potential to be a really good back-up, if not heir apparent to Matt Schaub.
lol...you really think that a lack of response to that by people would make you right and mean that everybody agrees with you? surely you are intelligent enough to know how foolish that is. i don't have to give examples of any FA wr's. you brought FA wr's up. my solution is to draft one to replace him. and unless there are zero FA wr's available, i'm confident that literally any single one that they signed would be a serviceable (at worst) replacement for jacoby jones. you have a bad habit of pretending that i avoid your questions. dude, we are debating this in terms of salary cap...right now, as we speak. cut jacoby jones is talking about this with regard to the salary cap. so you can disregard that comment like i asked, because it's clearly distracting you, and quit attempting to rally the troops who "called me out on it". ok on this one too??
Does that make you and them correct? I contended last season that the Texans were throwing in the towel on their hopes of winning a Super Bowl by starting a 6th round rookie 3rd string QB instead of using Delhomme or pursuing Brett Favre. I disagreed with "the team" and was correct. So, agreeing with the texans doesn't make your points. This is a team that has done a lot more wrong than right personnel-wise over the past decade.
really you think those QBs would have played better vs baltimore?? you are just dumb. I still think jacoby jones lost that game, If jacoby jones doesnt fumble the 1st time, then the ravens doesnt have the ball and the 3 yard line and yates is not forced to throw a lot. and you mentioned sage rosenfels do you remember his game against the colts? winning 27-10 with 8 minutes to go, and he fumbled twice and he got an INT.
great point. a smart person would think that it would be more likely that they would have played worse than 17/35 for 150 yds, 0 tds, and 3 ints. you are just smart. you got even smarter in my mind when you mentioned that jacoby jones fumbling in the 1st quarter made tj yates play like **** the entire game. nobody in their right mind should expect a quarterback to overcome a first quarter fumble and play well the rest of the game, no matter who the quarterback is. but, you became the smartest person who has ever posted when i combined these two examples of your brain power with your previous post, when you said that a qb who passed for 0 ints and 2 tds had just as bad of a game as a qb who passed for 3 ints and o tds. i smell a future curer of cancer in you!!
VY would only be a distraction if Matt was playing awful...and if Matt is playing awful, that means he is getting hammered and the O line is not performing. In that case, I would love to have a guy like Vince come in to back off the linebackers and give Dre a chance to get open.
yeah because its so hard to throw 3 INTs and 0 TDs against one of the top 3 defenses in the league, especially for Chad Henne, that in his career have more ints (37) than tds (31), and never had a season when he has more TDs than INTs, or aj feeley (career 28 TDs 31 INTs) or vince young (46 tds 51 ints). or Vince young had against the tough team of seattle: 1 TD, 4 ints, imagine against baltimore? why do you think Feeley have played for 4 teams?? because he sucks. and I didnt say that yates and flacco had just as bad games, I said flacco didnt have a great game, and the defense/special teams set him up for the TDs. and if flacco had a great game why ed reed called him out saying, he didnt have a good game.
you then went on to show those stat-lines 2 more times somehow thinking they were comparably bad (or good, of course, in Yates' case). darn. great point. i knew you were sumpin' smart.
