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Three new stats I would like to see...

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by theangrycanary, Mar 18, 2014.

  1. theangrycanary

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    1. Points created.

    I would like to know how many points the player is directly responsible for creating on his team. And how many they are directly responsible for creating for the other team.

    Here is an example. The other day Jordan Hamilton turned the ball over. The other team ran it back on a fast break. But Jordan Hamilton ran back and blocked the shot.

    So this goes on his statline as a turnover. Looks bad. But the truth is that he made up for it. So I don't care about that turnover.

    So the way this stat would work is like this. Lets say you pull up and hit a three. That counts as three points created. Lets say you make a good pass and get an assist for a three. That counts as three points created. Lets say you block a shot, and your team catches it, runs down the court and shoots a three... that would count as a three created.

    Meanwhile, lets say you miss a shot. The other team rebounds it and shoots a three. That would count as three points created for the other team.

    So this stat would take into account all those intangibles we cant really see. For instance, some players when they block shots, they block them so that their own team can recover the ball. While other guys just knock it into the stands. Which isn't really as useful.

    2. Killer instinct.

    Basically how effective is the player when the team is up by eight points or more. Shooting percentages, etc.

    3. Momentum changer

    Basically how effective is the player when the team is down by eight points or more. Shooting percentages, etc.

    --

    Seems to me like some players play better when they are down, and some play better when they are up.
     
  2. Nanisteru

    Nanisteru Rookie

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    The way you name them makes it sound like achievements from nba 2k
     
  3. Voice of Aus

    Voice of Aus Contributing Member

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    im fairly sure the last 2 stats are out thier, shouldnt be to hard to find, not sure about the first one maybe adjusted +- or something similar gives the best representation of a players production when thier on the floor
     
  4. theangrycanary

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    Well I've noticed for awhile that there is this peculiar difference between the 'eye' test and what the stats show.

    Everyone assumes the stats are superior to the eye, but when I really dug into it, what I found was that the stats are actually flawed.

    The problem is that some shots just matter more.

    For instance, your team is down by eight. The other team has the ball. Has the momentum. One of your players steals the ball, runs down the floor, and dunks it. Your team then goes on a 8-0 run, ties the game and eventually wins.

    If that player does nothing else in that game, that one dunk was HUGE. We remember it. We feel it. But on the statline? That guy may look like he didn't do squat. This is why there are these huge differences in stats and eye tests. Why guys like Melo are perennial losers and yet have the best stats. While guys like Big shot Rob have mediocre stats and stuff, but have hands full of rings.

    Statisticians are just now getting stats to take stuff like this into account with clutch stats. Shots and steals need to be WEIGHTED. Situations need to be taken into account.
     
  5. Yohohoho

    Yohohoho Member

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    You need EYES to look at STATS.
     
  6. Houstunna

    Houstunna The Most Unbiased Fan
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    I've always said there should be some form of specific credit given when a player makes a pass and the recipient gets fouled (misses the shot). This doesn't count as an assist, but the passer "assisted". Even if said player misses the FTs, the passer still aided his team by adding a foul to the opponent.
     
  7. try

    try Member

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    Here you go.
     
  8. Houstunna

    Houstunna The Most Unbiased Fan
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    Nice stats.

    Even threw in secondary assists (hockey assists).
    Commentators and analysis should mention these stats more.

    Nice
     
  9. jocar

    jocar Member

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    ^Lin fans.

    As a Bev fan, I would like to see
    1. Intimidation points.
    2. Frustrated ball handler taken off his game credits.
    3. Pumped crowd points resulting from awesome defensive plays.
    4. And posterization merit badges.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Houstunna

    Houstunna The Most Unbiased Fan
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    Well, every true Rockets fan should be a Lin fan.
    But since we both know what you really meant, read 'em and weep.

    3/16/14
    http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?p=8782824#post8782824
    No poster mentioned Birdman's attempt at blocking Bev, except me. I gave Bev extra props that no one else mentioned.
    Clearly the sign of a LOF/Bev Hater

    3/5/14
    http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?p=8751514#post8751514
    Obviously, more signs of LOF-ism... smh

    Get a clue, player.
     
  11. Easy

    Easy Very Calm
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    Stats for staring down the opponent.

    Cisco Garcia would be an all-star.
     
  12. Houstunna

    Houstunna The Most Unbiased Fan
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    Perhaps a stat that tells how "pure" players make shots.

    i.e.

    - Swish ratio, less net movement the better
    - subtract points for ball hitting rim, how hard it hits rim, and numbers of times.. lol
    - subtract points for lucky ass bank shots
     
  13. theangrycanary

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    Points created for your team

    1. If you shoot the ball and it goes in
    2. If you rebound the ball and your team eventually scores
    3. If you assist or hockey assist and your team scores
    4. If you steal the ball and your team scores
    5. If you block a shot, your team rebounds, and your team scores
    6. If you defend a shot, the shot misses, your team rebounds and scores
    7. If you set a hard screen and the ball handler scores

    Points created for the other team

    1. If you miss a shot, the other team gets the ball and scores
    2. If the person you are defending scores
    3. If you make a bad pass and turn it over AND the other team scores
    4. If you fumble a pass or lose the ball and the other team scores
    5. If you foul and they score

    Points created would not be compound. So if you steal the ball and score, you only get the points made. You don't get more than that.

    I think I got everything covered here.

    So what this stat would do would give more credit to people like ASIK. He would be getting points created for all those awesome screens. People who blocked shots so that their team could rebound them (ala Bill Russel) would get more credit than people who just knock them out of bounds. One way players, who play great on offense but give up a lot of points, would get less credit.

    Things like that. What do you guys think? Maybe they already have some stat like this. I've never seen it.
     
  14. HookemHorns1250

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    As for the hockey assist (2nd pass of the assist), that's always been interesting to me. I never want it to be a full assist, however I don't think certain fans realize how big that 2nd pass can be.

    Whether it's just swinging the ball as quickly as possible, or driving, kicking out and breaking down the D, allowing the next ball handler room to drive and kick it where ever, or in our case an alley to Dwight/T-J.
     
  15. jbasket

    jbasket Member

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    Too arbitrary to quantify. Too broad and too situation-dependent. I don't see how these stats will be legitimate. However, you can find out by breaking down the film.
     
  16. hahachui

    hahachui Member

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    As a rockets fan...i would like to see
    1, WIN
    2, WIN
    3, Champion!
     
  17. theangrycanary

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    I was thinking about breaking down some film myself and seeing how it panned out. Not sure where I can get game film from this season. Anyone gotta link?
     
  18. jbasket

    jbasket Member

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    Would need League pass, or torrent the game I think.

    Also, I don't see the point of 2/3. I just don't think it will really apply well: I am pretty sure players could get hot whenever, not dependent on the score. For point 1, the only way the numbers would be useful is to catch everything. Don't forget screens, secondary movement, etc. There should be more points created than the final score, because on some occasions, more than one persons creates the basket.
     
  19. yummyhawtsauce

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    rofl nailed it. sounds like a fighting game achievement too. C-C-C-ombo breaker!
     
  20. Derp McFlopsky

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    Just add points and assists.


    For the example, Jordan Hamilton probably got a turnover because he turned it over but then also got a block because he blocked it. Whoever scored probably got credit for the points and if there was a pass before that well I call it an assist.

    I mean really. Sometimes the descriptions and minutiae of "advanced statistics" are more in depth than the damn statistic itself.
     
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