Thoughts on the Bagwell dilemma

If Bags steps anywhere NEAR a baseball field, whether it is to pinch-hit, play first-base, or even be a bat-boy... the insurance company will pay nothing.

As it is, it is damn complicated to get an insurance company to pick up a contract this big, even if you can ultimately prove that he'll be out forever. I remember the dillema with Albert Belle, and it was even more obvious that he couldn't play... the insurance company was trying to do everything in their power not to have to pay him.

In th end, I'm kinda ambivalent to the whole situation... if Bags does come back, at least we get to see him in glimpses again (like we did last year), and at the worst, his contract comes off the books next year anyways. If he retires, Drayton will suddenly have a ton more of expendable income that could go a long way to a mid-season trade, or resigning Pettite to an extension, and being a player in next off-season's FA market.

I just hope this doesn't become a distraction for the team... we all know what they can do without Bagwell, and frankly, the team is sorta built to have Lance/Lamb at 1st, and Wilson/Taveras/Lane in the OF.

 

If he can not throw a baseball nearly 8 months after his surgery....he won't be able to 10 months after his surgery.

I don't feel sorry for Jeff one bit.....he still gets his money....

I am an Astros fan and a Jeff Bagwell fan, but I wanted Dream gone that last year as well......

Sometimes, tough business deicisions have to be made.

Thank you Jeff for all the wonderful years.....Good luck in the American League...

DD

 

I am replying within your Post:

 

Why not?

 

Major......he is lifting weights, can swing a bat, etc...etc...etc.....the shoulder has got to be close to as healed as it is going to get......

Do you honestly think that he will get strong enough to throw it 90 feet?

If he can't do that already?

DD

 

Well said.

The only good thing about this going public is the relief I feel that Drayton apparently will not let possible public backlash get in the way of doing what's best for the team once Baggie's contract expires. As you mentioned above, local icons Dream and Bags both got to a point where they couldn't see that they were done and it puts the franchise in a very bad and compromising position.

Thanks for letting us know you're ready and willing to move on after this season Drayton!

 

Because if he could throw... he would do it front of the media and settle the issue. I think the 'stros have gone the extra yard in making Bags feel whole, but its well past time for Bagwell to hang 'em up...

 

Except no one argues he can't throw now.

The question is whether he'll be able to throw down the road. I don't know enough about the surgery, its timetable, what his rehab structure is like, whether he's met set goals, or anything else to determine whether he'll be able to throw a few months from now.

The fact that he can bat and lift weights is irrelevent; he could do that pre-surgery too. The surgery wasn't designed to fix that. Carson Palmer won't be able to run around properly in 4 months either; but that doesn't mean he won't be able to in 6 months.

Bagwell has the right to determine his own schedule; if he thinks he has a chance to be back, he doesn't owe the organization anything in regards to retiring so they can cash in on an insurance policy. Nor does the organization owe anything to Bagwell - this is just how the business works. Everyone is expected to do what's in their own best interests.

 

I don't know about rehabbing shoulder surgeries per se, but I do have some firsthand experience with rehab of ACL and achilles surgery.

It's very possible that it doesn't have to do with arm strength, but the throwing motion. In other words, they might not allow him to throw until certain benchmarks are reached (i.e. range of motion in the shoulder).

For example, after both the ACL surgeries and the achilles, I was not allowed to jump for many many months after the surgery. When they finally allowed me to jump, it wasn't like all I could do was take small hops -- I had plenty of strength in the legs to do jumping drills that included reps of 3 sets worth of 60 seconds of different types of jumping.

My legs were perfectly strong, but I was not allowed to jump yet because certain non-strength related benchmarks had not yet been reached. Rehabbing after surgery involves more than simply building up strength; it involves breaking down scar tissue and other things.

Oh, and after being allowed to jump, it was not very long before I was allowed to practice cutting and then given the green light to play again. And I'm not a professional athlete. IMHO, it's not unreasonable that he's not allowed to throw 8 months after surgery and that he could ramp it up in 8 weeks. Not unreasonable at all.

I'm still skeptical, but all this talk of, "If he can't throw by now he never can" simply doesn't fit with what (admittedly little) I know about major rehab. In other words, just because he can bat and lift weights does not mean the shoulder "is as close to healed as it's going to get." It doesn't work that way.

 

Swinging a bat uses a different motion than throwing the ball. Remember he could still bat long after his shoulder was blown and he came back to pinch hit this season well before he knew anything about his throwing ability. I wanna see what he looks like in Spring Training before any decisions are made.

 

DD i understand what you saying about bagwell, but it would be extremely weird to see him in another jersey that didn't astros across the front of it.

i hated that hakeem left and played for toronto his last season. i believe some players are too special to an organization and city to EVER leave. hakeem was one of them and bagwell is as well.

if bagwell wants to play, i wouldn't stop him. how many times has he restructured his contract over the years to help the team get better? how many years did he play hurt to help the team? i think the astros OWE it to jeff if he wants to give it one last shot. i hate seeing great guys like jeff bagwell getting pushed out the door to just save some money. he's earned every penny over his hall of fame career, and for just one year out of all of the great ones he's given us, we're pushing him out? give me a break. drayton just needs to pay the man if he wants to play. he's become one of the faces of the astros oganization, and it's only right let the man finish his career in houston.

 

As I understand things, if he cannot do his complete job then the insurance company has to pay up. The Astros essentially hired him and pay him to play first base. If he cannot perform that function, then insurance should cover it.

 

I completely agree, although I think the experts do know a little bit about it, and I would love to see what they are saying about his shoulder.

DD

 

I agree - I'm surprised we've heard nothing whatsoever. That is very disappointing!

 

Bagwell needs to go out to pasture. I don't feel one bit sorry for him as he has been way overpaid the last 5 years. He's very lucky his prior expired when A-Rod got his insane contract from the Rangers. Supposedly Bags was underpaid before he got this ridiculous contract. If true, the current contract more than makes up for it.

I don't blame Drayton. There won't be much of a public backlash because most fans agree with him.

No disrespect for Bags, but he needs to give it up. The Astros have been very very good to him, especially these last years when his contract has killed their payroll. Jeff, just take the money and retire. Don't be selfish. Eat your pride and go out like a National League Champion. Then we can move Berkman to 1st base and finally step into the future. You, not Biggio, are the greatest player in Astros history. Thanks for the memories.

 

It appears the Astros are pursuing an insurance claim:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2302547

 

Ortiz was on some FSN show the other night basically saying the Astros have a very slim chance of collecting on this $, for the simple fact that he can swing a bat.