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The Myth that the NBA used to be less soft

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by Sweet Lou 4 2, Jan 5, 2019.

  1. K mf G

    K mf G Contributing Member

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    I think Dirk missed a week.
     
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  2. Kim

    Kim Contributing Member

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    Kenny Smith couldn't dribble under pressure (post injury...basically his tenure as a Rocket) in the 90's and probably couldn't in any era. Greatly skilled players like Curry can play in any era. But saying there is more contact [allowed] now than in the 80's is a generalization that I can't get on board with even with cherry picked video case study. Show me the fouls per per play data and hours and hours of film from different years and different refs and it's basically something that's too tedious to do - I get it. But I'm not saying I buy into the "modern players are wussies and couldn't play in the 80's or 90's"...that's another bad generalization.
     
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  3. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    Look I hear ya as it does run contrary to conventional wisdom

    But the fact is there are free throws attempted today than in any point in NBA history - this is an indisputable fact. Is that because there is less contact or because more contact is tolerated by the officials?

    I see more contact and the litmus test of a foul is higher than it was in the past. Thus there are less free throws. It's incredibly physical inside - guys like Harden get hit in the face nearly every game. Hand checking still occurs, you still see players putting forearms on guys. I mean the whole reason Harden gets to the line because he is an expert for punishing guys who make contact that the official wouldn't otherwise call. There's still a ton of contact that doesn't get called. Watch the games and look at the off ball contact vs following the ball - and it looks like a wrestling match under the rim!

    So maybe that's just my POV - but the reality is that there are fewer free throws attempted per game than ever before and that's not because players are better at avoiding contact in my opinion.
     
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  4. Caesar

    Caesar Member

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    Respect the history. Basketball didn't start in 2004.
     
    #24 Caesar, Jan 8, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2019
  5. Swiss Roll

    Swiss Roll Member

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    Its due to the rise of the three pointer, the very nature of the shot produces way fewer fouls than the post-ups which dominated the league of decades past. If you remove 3 point attempts and the fouls associated with them, then you would find that the foul rate on 2 pointers has increased dramatically over the last decade or so.

    TLDR: Teams shoot less 2s, but the 2s are resulting in more fouls.
     
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  6. BasketballMind

    BasketballMind Contributing Member

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    You going off a couple YouTube videos or did you see hthe gamesyourself in the 80's and 90's? The game has become softer without question. Especially in the playoffs. That same Detroit team was very physical and used to literally whoop everyone's ass, including MJ. LeBron's cry baby ass wouldn't have made it back in the day.
     
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  7. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    Go back and watch a whole game. They're on youtube.

    The great defensive teams of the past give perimeter players miles of space by today's standards that Harden and Curry would murder them with.

    They give this space because the concept of a dribble 3 or a 26+ foot 3 is madness....nobody did that back then, other than maybe Jordan or Miller in an iconic performance that for today's players is not uncommon, and bc man to man made it easier to pull rim protectors away from the hoop, so it was paramount to not get beat inside.
     
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  8. Mr. Space City

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    the only problem is people who act like EVERY. SINGLE. TEAM. back then was the bad boys pistons.

    NBA stars of today wouldn't be playing the bad boys pistons every single night.
     
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  9. Caesar

    Caesar Member

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    But they'll have you believing MJ was playing against expansion teams every single night.
     
  10. Rokman

    Rokman Member

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    I started watching in '92 and I can attest that the league now is much softer. The league has made no secret that they have tried to turn the league, slowly, year by year, to a more Euro style of play. Less contact, less aggression and more free flowing to create higher scoring which they think will draw in higher ratings. The league hated the Spurs style of play and hated when they were the match up they had to premier for the Finals and in a way they were right, the ratings dipped. They wanted and still want big, flashy, star-studded teams to play in the Finals. They have manipulated the rules year over year to get the effect they wanted. They now have it and we are basically watching woosie European style basketball that everyone in the 90's hated (including me). It's cheap. I don't like Draymond anymore than the next non-Warrior fan out there but I do like his aggressive style, it's dirty and tough and is a throw back to the 80's and 90's which were the Golden Years. Basketball used to have a Hockey edge to it but with high scoring and more action which is what made it so great. Now it's flopping and trickery and launching 3's and layups in the paint. It's just weak.
     
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  11. Rokman

    Rokman Member

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    I started watching in '92 and I can attest that the league now is much softer. The league has made no secret that they have tried to turn the league, slowly, year by year, to a more Euro style of play. Less contact, less aggression and more free flowing to create higher scoring which they think will draw in higher ratings. The league hated the Spurs style of play and hated when they were the match up they had to premier for the Finals and in a way they were right, the ratings dipped. They wanted and still want big, flashy, star-studded teams to play in the Finals. They have manipulated the rules year over year to get the effect they wanted. They now have it and we are basically watching woosie European style basketball that everyone in the 90's hated (including me). It's cheap. I don't like Draymond anymore than the next non-Warrior fan out there but I do like his aggressive style, it's dirty and tough and is a throw back to the 80's and 90's which were the Golden Years. Basketball used to have a Hockey edge to it but with high scoring and more action which is what made it so great. Now it's flopping and trickery and launching 3's and layups in the paint. It's just weak.
     
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  12. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
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    Today's defense is much more sophisticated. With illegal defense abolished, teams can deploy different defensive sets. (Yao was a victim of double team without the ball.) The advance of video technology also greatly enhance the ability to scout offensive moves.

    In that sense, today's offense and offensive skills need to be more sophisticated too. The league did put in more emphasis on stopping overtly physical confrontations. You can say that it makes the game "softer".
     
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  13. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    The rate in decline in free-throws has been steady over time. The game has gone through many periods of dominance, but free throw attempts has declined throughout on average.

    I watched the games then and now (despite what some people want to assume) - I was watching Rockets basketball in 1984. And there is a lot more hand checking and contact now then there was in the 80-90's. Just watch the Denver game and you see Harden is constantly hand-checked. There is so much contact on drives that goes uncalled it's amazing that it goes unnoticed. But just pay attention and look for hand checking and contact between players on and off ball the next few games.
     
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  14. hakeem94

    hakeem94 Member

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    THIS
     
  15. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    The 89 bad boy pistons defensive efficiency would have ranked them.....3rd this year, exactly what they were ranked in 1989.
     
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  16. oelman44

    oelman44 Member

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    I've always thought that the "softness" of the modern day NBA is overblown when you go back and watch old games, but one thing I will say is that old-school NBA games just seemed to have much more intense, electric, and intimidating in-stadium atmospheres then they do now-a-days. Seems like the NBA has gotten a lot more "family friendly" with the presentation - though I see why.
     
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  17. Caesar

    Caesar Member

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    The Decreasing Urbanization of the Toyota Center Entertainment Experience
     
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  18. Jontro

    Jontro Member

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    to be fair tho, defenders weren't hand checking jordan. they were touching him in awe of his greatness. just like hakeem with a similar treatment, cept hakeem is more greatness.
     
  19. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
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    To be honest, the real softness of today's NBA compared to yester-decades is the culture of SuperFriends. The top players back then would kill each other, rather than colluding to form a super team in order to win "not one, not two..." championships.

    That's more about mental softness than physical softness.
     
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  20. Jake Tower

    Jake Tower Member

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    Here's a common foul from back then

     

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