Rumor: Wolves "a few losses away" from trading a young star for an established vet

Rubio has been worthless since his rookie year, when it became obvious he would never develop the ability to finish around the rim in the NBA. James filling in 1 on his player card instead of 2 did absolutely nothing to change that.

I wouldn't touch Lavine with a 10 foot pole. Young athletes that can't learn how to play defense under the best current defensive coach (possibly of all time) almost certainly won't reach their potential down the line, on either side of the ball.

We have a better prospect sitting at the end of our bench. We're already giving good minutes to the 2 players that can actually develop with NBA playing time, rather than coaching or mechanical instruction.

Ariza is finally the 5th option. His 3 pointer is the best it might ever be in a rockets uniform, and his defense is still very very good. There are very few players we could trade him for that would replace his value for us, and none of them are on the Wolves.

 

Ariza is certainly a better overall player right now, but I'm more interested in who will be the best player from 2017 for 5-10 years. In that sense, I don't care if Lavine taps into more of his potential, he is already a tremendous catch and shoot player which is what I would like to have on the team long term vs letting Ariza play out his last 1 or 2 effective years and get nothing in return. It's all about rings, and I wish I could say Ariza is going to be good enough to be a key cog when this team is competing for rings, but I'm not sure about that. Lavine is a monster from 3pt range, if he ever becomes better at anything else it's a shocking bonus. I see Lavine playing the current Eric Gordon role with a tiny chance of becoming good enough to start, freeing us to consider trades for Eric Gordon to upgrade elsewhere. Lavine's bird rights are valuable, it's something I would consider, even though I'm a HUUUUUGE Ariza fan. If Gordon stays healthy he is a really nice piece that could net us a starter if we throw in a young player (maybe even Lavine) or a draft pick.

Anyways, just a thought. I'm not sold on it myself, but it's interesting to think about as a way to build up our talent pool long term.

 

You do more than consider it. You make that trade, no doubt. It's nice and all to think the Rockets could make a decent run in the playoffs. But this is a conference with the Warriors, Spurs and Clippers. If this MDA led offense first squad is going to make the playoffs, EVEN recognizing that you are trading defense (the weakness) for even more offense (already a strength), you have to just get more talent overall for future years. Ariza is a GREAT, AMAZING glue guy. But he's trending down just by virtue of age. LaVine is already an efficient 20 ppg scorer, super young, and trending up. And, as noted, it gives you the ability to then move Gordon, who is thus far outperforming his contract, if necessary.

You add LaVine, lose Ariza and go all out, super hard on for Gordon Hayward in the offseason.

I proposed the below in the random trade thread last week:
Ariza, Beverley, Harrell, Pick for LaVine, Dieng, Muhammad

And correctly was told no way the Wolves do that. And that's 90% true. And I'd certainly throw in something else if necessary. Maybe Dekker (although you are really short on SFs at that point)... then go after Gordon Hayward.

As for LaVine's defense with Thibs. Well look, I still think KAT has great defensive potential, and he's only gotten worse this year statistically in that regards (fewer blocks, worse defensive rating)

 

Mostly agree with your thoughts, but for me it's no thanks on that trade. Ariza and a protected pick for LaVine I'd do. Everyone right now knows what Lavine's career is going to be - bonehead, turnover prone, disinterested in defense, can shoot lights out. Wolves are desperate for defense and I would venture that they cannot get their hands on a better than Ariza 3 and D swingman that is a veteran and compliments Wiggins. You throw in the pick to give the Wolves another shot in the 15-30 range in the draft.

Dieng I have ZERO interest in. While we need young talent, I am very pessimistic about that guy living up to his contract. His offensive lives in the area that we have to free up for Harden, and his defense is below average, some say even worse than that. I'm pretty confident Dieng will be no better than Harrell in a year. That's not me being optimistic about Harrell, that's me being pessimistic about Dieng's role in this LEAGUE. He reminds me of Greg Monroe or Ed Davis or Jahlil Okafor. Guys who do not suit the trajectory of the league, and are good at a very limited set of skills. Harrell may yet become an excellent bench guy and would cost a lot less, and I believe he's younger. I think the Wolves will be begging for someone to take Dieng off their hands unless his development surprises everyone.

Muhammad is ok, but I'm not going to give up a pick, Harrell and Beverley for Muhammad. Muhammad has not earned minutes with 2 consecutive coaches on a young team with plenty of room to earn minutes, there have been rumors of him being the opposite of a coach's favorite.

Having said all that, I agree that the Wolves wouldn't be happy with the offer. I think it's the kind of deal that neither side really wants. If you're Thibs right now, the defensive minded GM and coach of the defensively underperforming Wolves already full of young talent, you would be drooling for a package of just Ariza and Beverley. Dieng and Muhammad are probably the worst players on that team. I would try to pry LaVine and Tyus Jones out of them, for that I'd be willing to sweeten the deal with Harrell and/or a pick. I'm sure that would kill us this season, but those are two very nice pieces we can carry into the future and they would look better under MDA than under Thibs.

 

Fair enough. We're generally on the same page though disagree a bit about the extras. Personally, I'm still not sold on Tyus Jones and think Ariza + Bev. is too much for LaVine/Jones. And I personally am not as down on Dieng as you are. I agree that Harrell might get there... some day... but as those days go by you have to start questioning when. He's still only in his second year, so I get that, but it does seem like a 2nd (or 3rd) coach now who is just reluctant to play him much, for whatever reason. I view Dieng as more of a Capela like guy that would take a lot of minutes from Nene, and is a better defender than you make out. But it is a big and long contract, and he is really just a center. Muhammed was just a placeholder SF since you are losing Ariza.

Ariza for LaVine straight up (add crap from Rockets to make trade work) I'd do. Ariza is back to playing really really solid ball. 40%+ from three. Defending (though still not at his prime levels), etc. And in some ways you'd be obviously sacrificing this season a bit... because LaVine is a better prospect and maybe even better player already and certainly for the future, but probably doesn't impact winning on the Rockets the way Trevor does.

But it seems like they'll really want to go really hard after Hayward, and I think they should, and that a Harden/MDA led squad will be attractive to him, and Harden/LaVine/Hayward/Anderson/Capela/Gordon/PBev/Dekker squad would be really really good offensively, not be much worse defensively than what they are and give you assets to add defense as necessary. Or you don't sign Hayward, but add a couple of real solid defenders.

Are the Wolves at a point where LaVine for Ariza, makes sense? Would they do it if you did Ariza+Brewer for LaVine+Pekovic? Salaries are about equal so doesn't destroy Rockets cap space in the offseason, unless one assumed Brewer could eventually be traded this year for an expiring, or in the offseason into cap space, whereas Pekovic can't. Which might be a fair assumption. Also the Rockets get REALLY short on SFs this year - but again, we are throwing in the towel on this year anyway.

 

If Minny had any guts they'd turn the team over to Jones and trade Dunn, Lavine, and Muhammad for a great young wing and center. Jones has the "it" factor. He's small but he overcomes his stature with leadership and a huge set of cajones. I've seen enough of him to be convinced he's superior to Dunn in the winning department. He's a basketball genius. They really should trade Dunn to Philly for Noel and trade Lavine/ Muhammad for the best young swingman they can get their hands on.

 

Rubio is horrible. Poor man Jose calderon that can't shoot

 

Rubio for Gay who says no?

 

Both teams? I don't think Rubio is a significant upgrade over Collison/whoever they have backing up Collison and Gay would pretty much black hole the development of Wiggins and KAT.

 

a Lavine trade here? That would be catastrophic. It's wrong to say "everyone already knows what Lavine is going to be". A lot of GMs do not know what a 21 year old is going to be yet and someone will pay a lot for him.
And it's right not to determine yet what he will be because it's not out of the real of possibillities that he will learn to be an average defender.

Anyway Wiggins is starting to get on my nerves. The horrible shot selection, no interest to contribute in any other way except from scoring , loss of aggresiveness...
It's fair to say that right now between Wiggins and Lavine it's not certain who is the better player. At least Lavine doesn't lose his aggresiveness is way more consistent , a much better 3 pnt shooter and usually contributes more with his passing.

 

If Wiggins doesn't start developing killer instinct like other great players have he's not going to become great.

 

I've been thinking the same trade partner but it's been a swap of Lavine for Henderson as the discipline and BBIQ the latter brings would do wonders in Minny (and he is a Thibs guy for sure). Not sure what other pieces would be needed to make that work but that's the direction I'd go as I don't think losing Lavine is a long term hit.

 

I just don't see any pieces that we would want that are available and vice versa. Rubio wouldn't fit well on this team - Point Beard is doing just fine. Pek is garbage. LaVine is the only young "star" I see that might be available. I imagine the asking price would be quite high.

 

I'd think the wolves could put an enticing enough package together to get Wall out of Washington - Dunn/Jones/Dieng/1st rd pick could make both teams better.

Wall
Lavine
Wiggins
Muhammed
KAT

Dunn
Beal
Oubre
Porter
Dieng

At this point I'd think Washington has to consider the panic button option - they've got clear chemistry issues with both stars in the backcourt (the term 'star' being used generously for Beal), but Wall would easily fetch a better package in return over Beal. Take the 1st rd pick, tank the rest of the season, draft BPA with both picks and cross your fingers...but clearly it wasn't the coach that was the problem with this team in the past.

 

The jags of the nba. You don't fool me

 

If they would the deal would already be done, wouldn't it? But they should trade Dunn for a defensive stopper at the 5 and turn the team over to Jones. I say this because it is very obvious that Thibs is going to trade Rubio.

 

Lol @ rubio

 

That Rubio clip is just ridiculous.

No thank you...

 

That clip just made BBallholic's pants tighten.