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Robert Mueller, Former F.B.I. Director, Is Named Special Counsel for Russia Investigation

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by KingCheetah, May 17, 2017.

  1. Jump Ship

    Jump Ship Member

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    Please list our god given rights.

    I am not trolling you, and yes what you’re saying is common sense. But that term has no meaning in court. The term innocence is not used during a ruling because in most cases, based on the evidence a judge can only determine if someone is not guilty of the charges.
     
  2. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member
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    The funny thing... its possible that kellyanne helped with the wording...

     
  3. Nolen

    Nolen Contributing Member
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    I'm gonna eat some crow here.

    Not because I ever said that the president and/or his staff did collude, but I privately thought that they did due to the publicly available evidence.

    -Everybody lying, repeatedly, about contacts with Russians, even to the FBI and to congress.
    -Don Jr's "If that's what you're saying, I love it" email was damn near a smoking gun, or pointed to one- or so I thought.
    -The timing of the wikileaks release to the "grab em by the pussy" tape
    ...and more stuff I can't remember.

    I figured, if they look this guilty just with the information available to the public, surely in a 2 year investigation, with subpoena power and phone records, emails, etc, the special prosecutor would find more- especially since Trump's campaign was a bit sloppy due to the fact he (reportedly) never planned on winning.

    I was wrong.

    If Mueller couldn't indict or convict anyone for conspiracy after a two year investigation this thorough, then the conspiracy never took place, or it was impossible to gather the evidence to prove it.

    I also expected there to be multiple counts of obstruction, but here (if Barr's summary is correct) Mueller says he can neither exactly prove nor exonerate the president. So I was sort of wrong on that too.

    This is a big win for Trump and the White House, and a black eye for the pundits who guaranteed collusion.

    I'll be curious to see where the other unsealed indictments and spun-off investigations lead. There's a lot left to be done, and a lot of other possibly corrupt and criminal behavior to investigate, but it's unlikely that any of it can attain the public anticipation this investigation did. I think Trumps numbers will get a nice bump after this, maybe even break 45%, and he's safe till the election. Even when new evidence of wrongdoing comes out, the narrative that "you guys were wrong about collusion, you're wrong about this too" will play well.
     
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  4. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    There is apparently no lie that Democrat leftists will not tell and that is especially true for Democrat leftists in the media.

    The 'Fake News' Democrat left media. Their reputations will not be recoverable for at least a generation after this and probably far longer. They have truly destroyed any residual claim to credibility that they previously might have previously had.
     
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  5. Svpernaut

    Svpernaut Contributing Member

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    Good on you. We as a people need to realize that we are 330 million vastly different people. You can have your opinions, and I can still respect you... and it is good to know that people are still out there ready to put the country over their pride and feelings.
     
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  6. Astrodome

    Astrodome Member
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    Kudos to you Nolen.
     
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  7. Svpernaut

    Svpernaut Contributing Member

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    Our entire Constitution and Bill of Rights... and the hundreds of thousands of legal presidences that have been set since they were ratified.
     
  8. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Insider Newsletter™ 2X Diamond Member

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    Whelp, time to move on.

    I wonder if the Bernie Bros are still furious enough to sit on their fat asses while complain that their vote doesn't matter.
     
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  9. Svpernaut

    Svpernaut Contributing Member

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    If 21st century US politics has taught me anything, it is easier to point the finger than it is to look in the mirror.
     
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  10. jcf

    jcf Member
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    I agree with all of this but the last paragraph. I think whenever one accusation (the most important one from my perspective) doesn't prove out, right or wrong it tends to cast doubt in some people's minds regarding other accusations. I think you are right that most people weren't going to be moved by this, but I think it will have some impact.
     
  11. Jump Ship

    Jump Ship Member

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    We have our bill of rights which is recognized in court. Please list or link our God-given rights. I do not care who’s god is giving us these rights. Are they found on the ten commandments? In the koran? Where?

    We have really gone off topic. The point is trump was found not guilty based on the evidence brought to light in court by a judge. Good for trump.
     
  12. B-Bob

    B-Bob my celli weighs a ton
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    Eh, I don't think you have much crow to eat. I don't recall you being super vocal in this thread.

    some of us, myself included, just kept saying "let's wait for the report," and I still hope we get to see some of it, but here's how I think it really plays out, and this is kind of what I've suspected for about a year.

    * there was significant footsie playing with Russian-linked foreign actors (e.g. "I love it" from the idiot son, and let's be frank, he is an idiot).
    * several crooks in the Two Scoops orbit were playing a little more than footsie.
    * it was more nods and winks, in the end, than any firm gameplan, or at least as far as the evidence that could be recovered would suggest.
    * as a rather unstudied guy who doesn't really ever want to start studying, Two Scoops and company were probably really, really worried. Maybe the footsie had actually crossed a legal line, or maybe the investigation would lead people too far into Russian mob/oligarch financial tangles. Who knows? The law is complicated! So he and his insiders did what they've done for most of their lives: lie, lie, lie, with extra lie sauced on top just in case they crossed some legal red line that they didn't understand.

    I'm very happy if there was no collusion. Extremely happy. I agree with those like dobro that say that it would have literally torn the country apart.

    Credit to Russia to know how to play this footsie and further divide us from one another. Their work in Brexit is pretty fascinating also. Big kudos to Putin in terms of accomplishing objectives for very little investment. Just one scary smart guy.

    So, in the end, lots of smoke, and more lies than smoke even, but no fire. It's like walking into your kids room and its full of smoke and he lies, lies, lies about vaping, but, in the end, you can't find any evidence of vaping. Okay, let's move on.

    EDIT: May I just point out how this would be playing if a lifelong Democrat had been special counsel investigating, say, an Obama weird footsie playing with some left-leaning European country in the 2012 election? And the Democrat special counsel finds nothing too damning. How do you think Fox and Friends would be fielding that? Contrast that with how most so-called lib media will now treat Mueller. I think most sane people believe he did his job to the best of his abilities, and good lord, did he ever find some bad apples and charge a bunch of Russians to boot.
     
    #7192 B-Bob, Mar 24, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
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  13. Svpernaut

    Svpernaut Contributing Member

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    Because you refuse to read. The God in the law, is not a religious deity. It is a symbol for scale, you rights supercede the United States as they are from a higher power. The entire point of this premise insures that the government cannot infringe upon your given rights, because they don't have the authority to do so.
     
  14. Jump Ship

    Jump Ship Member

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    God is not found anywhere in the constitution, including the bill of rights.
     
  15. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

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    I've read the statement from Barr and for now accept the findings. I agree that proving collusion was always going to be a hard thing and criminal collusion very difficult. I will point out that the report didn't draw a conclusion regarding obstruction of justice but according to Barr just laid out the evidence both for and against. I will also point out that the report doesn't state that the Trump campaign didn't try to collude with the Russians as we know from the meeting at Trump Tower, and we know for a fact that Trump did encourage the Russians to interfere in our election when he called for them to release Hillary's emails. While I agree those probably don't rise to the level of collusion let alone criminality such things still are very troubling for a US politician to do. For those of you on the Right consider if a Democrat had done the same things.

    I also have no doubt that there are many on the Left who are very disappointed in this result. I think many pinned too much hope on Mueller and I agree many will have egg on their face. Speaking for me personally my opinion of Mueller is still the same and from how I've seen this investigation proceed including the multiple indictments, guilty pleas and convictions arising from it I feel confident that the investigation was done thoroughly and professionally. That said Trump and many on the Right are still convinced that Hillary Clinton is guilty and like them I suspect many on the Left will continue to assert that Trump is guilty of collusion with the Russians.

    While in this particular regard Trump may be exonerated. None of this covers for the fact that we know that Trump's campaign was riddled with criminals. Yes criminals, people who have not just been indicted but actually plead guilty or convicted. None of this also covers the many areas of unsavory if not criminal behavior of Trump. We know that he is an unindicted co-conspirator with Michael Cohen, we know that his charity, campaign and innaugural committee remain under investigation, we know that Trump has not separated himself from his businesses and there is a pattern of policy changes in this administration following actions that benefited the business of Trump and his family. This might've saved Trump from the biggest threat of his presidency but that doesn't mean there isn't a lot more out there to judge him on.
     
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  16. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    I think that is good news that the case to defraud could not be proven. It would be interesting to see all the stuff. It is much better than having an administration knowingly aiding the Russians attempts.

    What is sad is that the Russians did try to interfere on Trump's behalf and Trump and his team lied about their meetings with the Russians over and over.
     
  17. Downtown Sniper

    Downtown Sniper Contributing Member

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    @Trader_Jorge putting in the work right here right now!

    I can't wait to go back and read this entire thread one day, there's going to be some mighty cringeworthy and hilarious reading.
     
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  18. Svpernaut

    Svpernaut Contributing Member

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    The Declaration of Independence literally says...

    Our founding fathers made it quite clear, that our rights, supercede the power of the government. That translates to God Given rights, you can call them whatever you want, but the meaning is the same.
     
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  19. Jump Ship

    Jump Ship Member

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    That document just says we have rights to life, liberty, and happiness. And that we can break away from the government and start a new one when those are not met.

    I like it, but it does not say anything about the topic we are discussing. The way I interpret that document is if the government decided you needed to be proven innocent in court or you are guilty then we need to start a new government.
     
    dachuda86 likes this.
  20. cml750

    cml750 Contributing Member

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    Bingo!! Excellent post!!!
     
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