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[Ringer] 30 Facts that Will Make or Break the Harden-Westbrook Rockets

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by SamFisher, Jul 16, 2019.

  1. steddinotayto

    steddinotayto Contributing Member
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    beardMJ.JPG
    [​IMG]
     
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  2. dmoneybangbang

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    Aside from PG... who would the defenders be glued to?
     
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  3. biff17

    biff17 Member

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    Carmelo's main weakness was his defense of he was not so bad at that we could have lived with his shot selection.

    not both.
     
    #123 biff17, Jul 16, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
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  4. dmoneybangbang

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    But not an indication he made Paul George better during his best year?

    Curious.
     
  5. Roc Paint

    Roc Paint Contributing Member
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    Neither are most of your posts :)
     
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  6. biff17

    biff17 Member

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    I would gladly take that defense with Russ being able to get a head of steam playing off Harden.

    We have had nobody able to create off the dribble like Westbrook since Harden has been here.

    What also is missing is that NO is also sagging of other players and OKC is not spacing guys as well as Houston does.
     
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  7. J Sizzle

    J Sizzle Member

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    I’m Thanos. I’m just here to bring balance to Clutchfans.
     
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  8. biff17

    biff17 Member

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    Russ does not suck at finishing at the rim and he does not suck at assisting for the 3.

    he also does well in the pnr with Adams.

    i don't know the need for hyperbole.
     
  9. TimV

    TimV Member

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    I understand the concept and value of space just fine. If you were to say the Rockets are able to get more uncontested threes because of better spacing, I’d fully agree with you. But saying Rockets uncontested threes are better than the Thunder’s uncontested is illogical assuming that the Thunder’s uncontested threes are not taken by the likes of Nerlens Noel. For heavens sake, an uncontested three is, by definition, a 3PA taken with space. the data shows that the Thunder’s threes aren’t uncontested because the defense is sagging off of bad shooters. You chucked up a bad analysis, don’t make it worse with a frustration foul (Which, coincidentally is a Westbrook special).
     
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  10. dmoneybangbang

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    Simmons and Lowe had a podcast about this and they are both bullish.

    We have a better roster than OKC. Russ certainly has his glaring weaknesses but OKC didn’t do him much favors with the roster they built around him.

    Russ is at his best driving and running spread PNR. He will have that opportunity.
     
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  11. dmoneybangbang

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    How so? With better overall shooters then there would be better spacing between the shooters and the defenders.

    The idea is to use Russ’s playmaking to give Harden better shots.
     
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  12. finsraider

    finsraider Member

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    I don't see how that makes full use of their skills. If Harden has the ball, you have all of these options:

    Harden stepback 3: 39%
    Harden floater: 49%
    Harden layup: 52%
    Westbrook layup: 65%
    Westbrook catch & shoot 3: 32%

    If Westbrook has the ball, you have these options:

    Westbrook pullup 3: 30%
    Westbrook layup: 65%
    Harden layup: 52%
    Harden catch & shoot 3: 41%

    At the end of the day, Harden is just the better player and should get the ball. Sure, you get superior off ball shooting from Harden, but Harden gives you better everything.

    Also, I think there's a precedent for this. When Harden was at OKC and he shared the floor with Westbrook, I believe Harden would be on ball and Westbrook would be the SG.

    Westbrook's pullup jumper is BY FAR the biggest change he needs to make to his game.

    If you look at his and Harden's shot matrix, you see that everything Harden shoots at high volume he shoots WELL. With Westbrook, too many of his shots lean towards things he doesn't do well. Everything around the rim is GREAT, and but have to place him in the the right places for his jumper to be effective:

    Left corner 3: 34%
    Right corner 3: 44%
    Catch & Shoot 3: 32%
    Open 3s: 33%

    That "placing" is Dantoni's speciality. He's great at putting players in the right places to succeed. IMO, when Harden is on the floor, Westbrook should set up in corner, with Harden looking for him on kickouts or backdoor cuts. We can also run some 1-2 PnR with Harden setting the pick and Russell cutting downhill.
     
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  13. PlayBall

    PlayBall Member

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    You've got a point, it's probably both.

    I never made the point he doesn't make teammates better - my point was that he still appears to consider himself THE MAN. We'll see if that changes with Harden.
     
  14. Gorilladunks

    Gorilladunks Member

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    Westbrook and Harden will only share the court for 15-20 minutes a game. Westbrook is not a 2 guard. He holds no gravity on the court. It would hurt harden playing point. Its what happened with PG in the playoffs. They laid off westbrook. You need to let westbrook have the ball and do PNRs. Let harden be a catch and shoot or drive player. He becomes the fallback option and is the best at creating his own shot late in a clock. The last thing you want is westbrook being left wide open and shooting late in the clock shots. Thats what Harden as the primary point will lead to .
     
  15. PlayBall

    PlayBall Member

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    Short version: Only one of them can play PG at a time. And only Harden is a threat from outside.
     
  16. Gorilladunks

    Gorilladunks Member

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    very good short version
     
  17. dmoneybangbang

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    THE MAN is subjective. It seems like Paul George was the MAN last year before he hurt both shoulders.

    My issue is there is a lot of biases regarding Russ that are overshadowing his actual strengths and weaknesses. The Russ hate on here has clouded some minds.

    As I’ve been saying it’s not just on Russ... Harden has to adapt too in order to make this work. Harden and Russ made this happen (more the former) with their respective organizations.
     
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  18. TimV

    TimV Member

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    The Thunder don’t have bad shooters. They have a bad shooter. Their 3PM % is higher than the Rockets if you remove Westbrook. Westbrook caused their spacing issues.
     
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  19. PlayBall

    PlayBall Member

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    HAD a bad shooter.
     
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  20. PlayBall

    PlayBall Member

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    In terms of production, I agree - but in usage rate, shots launched, etc, I believe Russ was still far higher despite his lesser productivity. That's my main concern here.

    EDIT: Never mind, it's much closer than I thought. George actually shot a little more, Russ had a slightly higher usage rate.
     
    #140 PlayBall, Jul 16, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
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