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[Lowe Post] Howard Beck "leaning hard" Giannis, Lowe at a standstill

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Zergling, Mar 27, 2019.

  1. Zergling

    Zergling Member

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    http://www.espn.com/espnradio/podcast/archive/_/id/10528553
    Discussion starts @ 37:05

    Beck is preferring Giannis because Bucks were consistently good all year and are a top defensive team. He acknowledges Harden saved the Rockets but blames Harden for Houston being bad in the first place (no mention of the big offseason changes/losses that caused the early slip up more than anything).

    Zach Lowe agrees with Beck's argument but presented a really good argument that favors Harden (@ 49:35). Giannis' MVP case is too intertwined with Budenholzer's COY case. Also Bucks have created an ecosystem to almost completely mitigate Giannis' perimeter shooting weakness by surrounding him with 4 shooters. Harden on the other hand is "100% scheme and teammate proof" and "ecosystem independent". "He doesn't need a pick"! Points out the ridiculous way the Bucks were trying to funnel him to the basket.

    Good discussion as usual with Lowe/Beck. Unfortunately I see both in the end going with Giannis and he will probably win the award.
     
  2. jordnnnn

    jordnnnn Member

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    Lowe also did a pretty good job of explaining why Harden is not the terrible defender he continues to be described to be.

    First MVP debate I have heard so far that was actually well thought out and researched. Far from the hot take artists and former players with zero statistical arguments.
     
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  3. J.R.

    J.R. Contributing Member

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    Zach "I legit have no idea but maybe probably Kawhi is MVP" Lowe

    Yeah, he voting for Giannis. Not falling for your "trick" Zach.

    Exactly right. These "I don't know-ers" know exactly who they're voting for: Giannis.
     
    #3 J.R., Mar 27, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2019
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  4. JMAD21

    JMAD21 Member

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    Beck’s Giannas argument annoyed me more than I expected from him.

    Basically goes with Giannas because of the Rockets bad start, ignoring that Harden was still scoring about 30 a game during that stretch. Anyone that watched the Rockets early in the season knows that we sucked despite Harden. CP, Clint, and EG all got off to horrid starts. Harden was typical Harden, then he went into legend mode.
     
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  5. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    Lowe voted for Lebron last year, and there is no way in hell he wouldn't vote for Lebron again this year, if he was doing the same for the Lakers as Harden is for the Rockets.

    that's just fact
     
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  6. Zergling

    Zergling Member

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    Yeah I was disappointed that they seemed to not actually know what caused the early struggles. No mention of losing Ariza, Mbah a Moute, and Anderson. No mention of Morey's attempt to replace them (Ennis, MCW, Melo) being a complete disaster.
     
  7. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member
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    No, it isn't.

    https://ak-static.cms.nba.com/wp-co...NBA-Most-Valuable-Player-Voter-Selections.pdf

    Also, Lowe voted Harden ahead of Westbrook on his 2017 ballot, and he had LeBron 4th that year.
     
    biff17 likes this.
  8. J Sizzle

    J Sizzle Member

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    The Rockets being terrible the first month of the season is not a reason to vote for Harden. The Rockets wasting the offseason and scrambling to fill out a team of minimum contracts was a valiant effort by Morey, but ultimately cost the team too many games for Harden to win. And honestly...just look at all the losses we’ve had to terrible teams this season. Win even half of those and maybe things are different, but the Rockets didn’t show up in far too many easy games, it hurt our record, and therefore Harden’s MVP chances as well.

    We all know Giannis is going to win. As @J.R. said...any of these “I truly don’t know! Need to see the whole 82 games!” Know they’re going to vote for Giannis, but just want to seem edgy.
     
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  9. bmelo

    bmelo Member

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    Harden is best rs player argubly of all time and mvp is award for rs. It belongs to him
     
  10. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member
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    Harden's numbers at 11-14 mark:
    30 ppg, 8.3 apg, 5.5 rpg, 2.1 spg, 5.8 tpg, 114 ORtg, 21.8 GmSc

    17-18:
    30.4 ppg, 8.8 apg, 5.4 rpg, 1.8 spg, 4.4 tpg, 120 ORtg, 24.3 GmSc

    16-17:
    29.1 ppg, 11.2 apg, 8.1 rpg, 1.5 spg, 5.7 tpg, 118 ORtg, 24.3 GmSc

    Pretty good numbers, but not up to the standard he set the prior two seasons.
     
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  11. Gakatron

    Gakatron Contributing Member

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    One thing that may help is I think a lot of the Westbrook voters get **** for voting for him in 17, Lowe brings it up a lot. Might be worried about that happening again with any luck. The fact that there is commentators with a vote still peddling the no D narrative just shows how little they actually follow the game and to be honest makes a mockery of the award itself when you have these fools voting.

    End of the day we know Harden is not winning, he should be a four time MVP but will have just the one. I'm not sure why it is so much harder to give the award to the same guy, we saw it with LeBron not winning too when he was clearly the best player.
     
  12. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member
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    Does that help or hurt Harden? Who is this year's "Russell Westbrook"?
     
  13. luckyman76

    luckyman76 Member

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    It's really simple. They gave Harden the MVP last year to get rid of him. Before the season started they anointed AD and teased Giannis. When AD fell apart they hyped Giannis. They were never going to give it to Harden and will never again. He is just making them look bad. Get ready to see him cheated out of his 3rd MVP. Should have 4 by now. Tells you all you want to know about how no one cares about legitimacy anymore. Get ready for the Embiid narrative next year or AD depending on where he ends up. Durant in NYC may tempt them too much and he will get the 1yr LBJ can do no wrong pass there.
     
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  14. BigMaloe

    BigMaloe Contributing Member

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    These numbers are near identical when accounting for randomness. Wtf are you on about didnt live up to his prior standard?

    Bruh, your incomparable sometimes with your strange stances
     
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  15. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Easter Egg Hunter - Tell me why? نحن عائلة
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    Management failures such as signing MCW, Melo and Ennis should not be a thing in the convo IMO.

    I know that is why we sucked but obviously Ego and CP3 were playing like shet as well.

    The same goes for injuries to players like Brogdon who was integral but it's just a hardship every team has to go through.

    It would be much easier if they'd come up with a steady formula for these kind of awards year in year out. (One year it's triple double, another year team achievement and best coaching)
    Nobody would complain that much.
     
    #15 daywalker02, Mar 27, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2019
  16. Wulaw Horn

    Wulaw Horn Member

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    I mean, I think Harden should be the MVP and all but are we going to ignore the fact that Freak is, you know, better than him?
     
  17. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member
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    Don't be dramatic.

    A 114 Offensive Rating would be his lowest efficiency since his rookie year. GmSc of 21.7 looks nice, but inflated somewhat by high usage (37.3 usage rate through those first 25 games was higher than in any prior season).

    Harden somehow increased his usage and his efficiency since that point, to his credit. He's been amazing. But can't give him that credit and simultaneously ignore that his performance was down a bit at the beginning of the year.
     
  18. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    misread Deuce's post J.R. inserted, making fun of his oh-so-clever Kawhi vote.

    Replace with the logic of Deuce's following sentence: "Everyone who voted Lebron last year, will not vote Harden, yet would if it was Lebron doing this."

    that's just fact :p
     
    #18 heypartner, Mar 27, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2019
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  19. T for 3

    T for 3 Member

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    Came here to say that I couldn't give two ****s about any of this ****.
     
  20. dischead

    dischead Member

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    Why do these morons get to vote? Let the players and coaches vote.
     
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