So what's the record for most posts in the same thread by the same person? My guess is that The Cat holds that record now. ------------------ Just shut up and post
What if he takes a 1 year Mid-Level with Seattle and then gets a bigger Full Bird next year? Exactly, thats the whole point of signing a 1 yr deal. Rashard could decide to stay in Seattle for a SIGNIFICANT raise or he could decide to go to Houston for a lot of cash. He has so many options by signing a 1 yr deal; it makes no sense for him to take a 2 yr 8.4 mil contract from the Sonics. I would be very shocked if he signs that 2 yr deal for 108% of the league average. ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net
Why do I get the distinct feeling if Rashard goes anywhere, it will probably be to the Raptors? Or maybe even the Bulls if they can't get McGrady? ------------------ Just shut up and post
MManal, So what is your prediction on the type of contract Cat will sign? Mango ------------------ 1. Put new topics in the proper forum 2. Use clear wording for new threads 3. No duplicate threads 4. Conduct yourself like an adult The Serious Police are watching Donate Blood! All will be assimilated.
Mango, I have no idea what Cat will do. It does not make the kind of sense for him to sign a 1 yr deal as it does for Lewis, but I could see it happening. As much as we all like Cuttino, he just does not have the upside potential of Lewis. A 6-10 long armed athlete that can shoot the three and run the floor like a gazelle has obvious physical advantages to a 6-4 guard with a quick first step. If I were Cuttino's agent though, I would take the 2 yrs 8.4 mil and see what happens from there. I just dont think Cuttino has the drawing power on the open market that Lewis could have. ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net
aelliott-Did you ever find out about a scenario if the offer sheet for Mobley stays at the 2.3 million exception, if the Rockets can offer/give him the 4.1 Early Bird instead? (Same situation applying for Lewis). NIKEstrad, Let me make sure I understand what you are asking. Are you talking about a scenario where Mobley would sign a $2.3M offer sheet with another team and the whether the Rockets could use Early Bird rights to match the offer? That would not be allowed. Once an offer sheet is signed, then the terms of the deal are locked in. So, if Mobley signed a one year offer sheet, then you couldn't change it to a two year deal (so you couldn't use Early Bird). I ran this scenario by Larry Coon several months ago and he concurred. ------------------
interesting....if he doesn't sign any offer sheets, we negotiate with him for whatever he wants that we can give him (Early Bird). ------------------ The more lefties on your team, the better. Collier is Seven Foot and Left Handed. How can you go wrong? Trade or bench Kenny Thomas.
I promised myself I wouldn't post again on this thread but I have some comments to respond to. It is mathematically possible. Aelliot showed how $6,700,000 could be freed up but you are getting your information from a guy who doesn't even know who is under contract for Seattle. Freeing up $12,000,000 while extremely difficult, is not impossible. I could show you many of ways Seattle can cut that much cap but it is a waste of time since it is looking like Lewis will end of signing for one of Seattle's exceptions. The whole point of this discussion is that it is possible for Seattle to match if they are willing to begin rebuilding, a threat which will make Lewis think twice before signing another team's offer sheet. I got my information Thursday before Lewis got hurt in a scrimmage. The word is that Lewis is afraid of getting hurt and also wants to enjoy the perks of free agency (being wined and dined, etc.). That's roughly a $5,400,000 first year salary as compared to Seattle's $3,900,000, a difference of $1,500,000 however after you adjust for taxes, the difference narrows to roughly $850,000. If Lewis signs a one year contract with Seattle for the mid level exception, he would only need to sign for roughly $7,500,000 in his first year with either Seattle or Houston to have more money in 2 years or if he signed the early bird exception, he would only need a contract of $7,300,000 to make more money in 3 years. The only benefit from that Toronto contract is security however he could easily make more money by signing for the mid level exception and have Seattle and Houston out bid each other for his services in 2001. Seattle and Houston both have a very significant tax advantage over Houston since both states do not have income tax. Florida is the only other NBA state where this is true. Seattle isn't stupid, they will deal with Lewis first. Seattle is very interested in acquiring a player like White or Amaechi for the mid level exception which is why I still predict Lewis will sign for the early bird. Contracts in sign and trade deals must be at least three years long and can't involve the mid level exceptions meaning Lewis would only be able to sign a 3 year, $13,500,000 contract. Since Lewis is a restricted free agent, this would be very difficult to pull off since Seattle doesn't have to agree to anything. Seattle actually has been getting offers for him this off-season. Many GMs feel that a change of venue will help return him to his old form. With Duncan not going east, a player like Vin Baker would easily been one of the better PFs in the east. Clearly I do know jack. I had to correct many of the "respected" posters here with actual facts. If you can't handle engaging in an intelligent conversation, just don't post at all. My guess would be that Chicago will go after him with the most money. Now that Duncan isn't going to Orlando, it changes everything. If Chicago gets real desperate, neither us of Seattle will have to worry about Lewis next year. ------------------
"Seattle actually has been getting offers for him [Vin Baker] this off-season. Many GMs feel that a change of venue will help return him to his old form. With Duncan not going east, a player like Vin Baker would easily been one of the better PFs in the east." I suppose you're the Sonics GM? You criticize others for hypothetical scenarios, how in the world would any of us know they're getting offers for Baker, bar being a high ranking official on an NBA team. Whatever the event, I'd say the chances of the Sonics getting 6-7 million under the cap are very close to 0. The Rockets "hypothetically" could get that far under the cap, by making deals like Hakeem to Chicago for nothing, Walt to LAC for nothing etc. One last thing: Trade exceptions count against the cap. And trade exceptions are created any time you trade down in salary for some sort of significant amount. All scenarios null and void. ------------------ The more lefties on your team, the better. Collier is Seven Foot and Left Handed. How can you go wrong? Trade or bench Kenny Thomas.
aelliott only, Since I am unable to get your email address, I will post this here. Go review a thread that ran a month ago called " I have a question capologists ". http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/Forum3/HTML/007114.html You posted in that thread, so think about the similarities between that thread and this thread. Always, Mango ------------------ 1. Put new topics in the proper forum 2. Use clear wording for new threads 3. No duplicate threads 4. Conduct yourself like an adult The Serious Police are watching Donate Blood! All will be assimilated.
Seattle's GM has said publicly that teams have been interested in Baker. Payton to Orlando for multiple draft choices. There, I cleared $7,000,000 under the cap. Will Seattle do that? Probably not, but it is possible which is the whole crux of my argument. ------------------ [This message has been edited by RT45 (edited July 11, 2000).]
To RTidontknowjack45: obviously you dont know jack cause you wont quit yapping. As for an intelligent conversation. LOOK AT THE POSTS YOUVE BEEN PUTTING UP IN THIS SUBJECT! They are stupid! Are you a rockets fan or what? its like ur taking sides against the rockets. IT shows ur true colors! ------------------
RT45, what are the chances of wally walker trading an all-world pg (payton is) for "draft choices ?" Heck, Kelvin Cato is worth a mid 1st, what is Payton worth ? So, the chances are close to zero. ------------------ "Don't they get cable in Canada ?" Keith olbermann, after watching hakeem block terry catledge's shot 5 times.
Payton's the main person pushing for Rashard to return. If they trade him, Rashard's gone anyway. ------------------ The more lefties on your team, the better. Collier is Seven Foot and Left Handed. How can you go wrong? Trade or bench Kenny Thomas.
Payton to Orlando for multiple draft choices. There, I cleared $7,000,000 under the cap. Will Seattle do that? Probably not, but it is possible which is the whole crux of my argument. Well duh, its possible, but so is Olajuwon to the Clips for nothing as Nike pointed out. By showing that hypothetical scenarios that have less than 1 pct chance of happening could does not show any type of intelligence. Do you think the people on this BBS are englightened by something they already knew? According to you, who seem to think you know everything about what the NBA is offering, have a little bit of sense with your Baker offer. Let's for a second think what you say is true about Baker. Do you think the offers are from a team that has a trade exception (Indiana, Houston) or a team with cap room (Bulls, Magic, etc)? Obviously not. If there are any offers, its teams offering equally as bad contracts which does NOT help Seattle to get under the cap. If you are such a cap guru you would realize that Seattle has to take back a lot less for Baker, and the only way they can do that is throw him on a team that has cap room or a trade exception. Before you try to persist, the Pacers are NOT taking Baker for the reasons already discussed in this thread. In other words, your whole argument was a big waste of time. First you acted like you were the know-it-all, then backtracked to "well its possible put the odds are low". Well DUH, I think everyone here realizes that these crazy scenarios could happen, but if that is the case, why dont we just start discussing crazy trades like Walt Williams and the trade exception for Kobe Bryant? I mean this is possible right? Why dont we just keep posting 4 page threads on that and waste everyone's time? ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net
I've beeen reading and reading and reading this damn thread and it's getting frustrating. I know that the CBA and the salary cap are confusing as hell and it's easy to get into arguements of fact. So here is my take and maybe we can all kiss and make up. Rashard Lewis maybe hesitant to sign a big contract with Chicago or Toronto because Seattle *could*, if they wanted to, clear that much under the cap. This is if they believe that Lewis is the future of the team. That is a fact. Don't worry about probability, just know that they could. The problem with this is that it would gut their team and put them in a rebuilding mode for a few years. Is this really what Rashard wants? I don't think so. This is something that he has to consider even though it is highly unlikely. Now I know that it is hard to give anyone with less than 1,000 posts any credibility but RT45 obviously knows his sh*t as well as Aelliot, and everyone else except Carl that has joined this arguement. I think it's time to put this thread to bed. Sorry Cat......... ------------------ "Stranger things have happened, but none stranger than this" - Commentator after a parachutist landed in the ring of a Holyfield fight
Ok lets end this argument now. Here is a link to Seattle's projected salaries which take effect after July 1. Obviously this is just an estimate but their numbers seem pretty accurate. The exact values wont start circulating until the NBA determines everything with their auditing this month. http://members.home.net/victony/seadata.htm Here is what they are committed to for next season. Emanual Davis .61 mil Lazaro Borrell .42 mil Horace Grant 6.5 mil Shammond Williams .55 mil Greg Foster 1.76 mil Vernon Maxwell 1.57 mil Ruben Patterson 1.00 mil Gary Payton 12.2 mil Brent Barry 4.32 mil Vin Baker 10.13 mil Vladimir Stepania .75 mil Desmond Mason .72 mil Total 40.53 mil Rashard Lewis as an unsigned free agent will count on the Sonics cap also but since his last yr's salary was minimal, we wont worry about that right now. The projected cap is 35.5 mil so Seattle is over by 5.03 mil. Here's what it would take for them to get significantly under the cap, enough to outbid all the teams with cap room.... They would have to dump BOTH Vin Baker and Horace Grant or Brent Barry for absolutely NOTHING. That means they'd have to find a team with enough cap room to take Baker that would take him for nothing. Essentially, Baker would have to go to a team like Chicago or Orlando for this to work. Does anyone in here think that has even a slim chance of happening? Sure its a "crazy scenario that could happen", but then why dont we just make 4 page threads with Walt Williams and the exception for Kobe Bryant? I think The Cat is on to something with the info he has provided us and I could really see Lewis signing for 1 yr. RT45 tried to act like a know it all, then backtracked to well its "a crazy scenario" when he realized how truly foolish and a waste of time his argument was. RT45's scenario has basically a zero percent chance of happening, here how about this I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, a .0000000000000000001% chance. ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net
If Rashard signs a 6 year $41,000,000 offer sheet and Seattle matches it, it won't matter who is on Seattle's roster. ------------------
My argument is that it is mathematically possible for Seattle to watch a $6,000,000 or $7,000,000 offer. Whether or not Seattle does do this is a different story, the ability to do so is the whole argument. Please read my previous posts to see where I am coming from. ------------------
