You just don't get it do you son? Here is how so many here form what they believe is rational, well thought out, well formulated, and properly expressed deductive reasoning, stated as well I might add in what they believe are "convincing and overwhelming terms". (as someone put it in one of these threads) "fact" according to some here: 1. Jeff Van Gundy doesn't play Spanoulis. 2. Rockets trade Spanoulis after he refuses to stay with team. 3. Spurs release him after he refuses to stay with team. ERGO ---------------------------------> "See right here, PROOF Spanoulis is NOT an NBA player. I mean what else could this possibly mean?" SAME people as above: "fact" 1. Jeff Van Gundy didn't play Spanoulis because he "sucks." 2. Span is gone buy buy, see told ya so. 3. Van Gundy was fired. He no longer has a job as a coach. He has not been offered one. But it's just because he likes being a commentator and all. 4. See, is this not PROOF that he was absolutely right with how he handled things last year? 5. Sure Morey and Adelman told The Chronicle they wanted Spanoulis, but you know they always say one thing then mean another, that's why they traded him, I mean why keep a player that refuses to play with the team right? Or and this is really good........ Van Gundy no PT Spanoulis Popovich no PT Spanoulis = PROOF Spanoulis = sucks Hmm......and when did Spanoulis play for Popovich again? And when was Van Gundy fired again? Not only is this "logic" so pathetic it's actually sickening that adults can be so simple minded, but it's also so completely hypocritical that it really in all honesty is something to marvel at. Hmm let me try, JVG no play Spanoulis Spanoulis get angry Spanoulis tell team he play no more Morey say I fire stupid JVG he suck Morey hire Adelman Adelman say play time for Spanoulis ok to me Spanoulis say shove it don't believe Rockets BS See, this "PROVES" Jeff Van Gundy ruined Spanoulis totally, he cost the Rockets the playoff series, ............... Wait a minute what am I thinking? I actually was using logic based on fact there? My bad, let me try it again. Spanoulis say he play if not for JVG He say CD agrees with him Rockets fire JVG See this "PROVES" JVG = "dog crap" from New York. Go back to New York Van Gundy. Wait damn did it again, actually formed logic based on what actually happened. I'll try this one more time, trying to lower my IQ 80 points so I can think like some others here, here goes........ 1. Jeff Van Gundy doesn't play Spanoulis. 2. Rockets trade Spanoulis after he refuses to stay with team. 3. Spurs release him after he refuses to stay with team. ERGO ---------------------------------> "See right here, PROOF Spanoulis is NOT an NBA player. I mean what else could this possibly mean?" Van Gundy no PT Spanoulis Popovich no PT Spanoulis = PROOF Spanoulis = sucks THERE it really does work! It really is scary how simple minded adults can be.
article link Spanoulis has no regrets about NBA move 08/25/2007 - ATHENS, Greece (Ticker) - Vassilis Spanoulis finally got the release he so desperately wanted from the San Antonio Spurs this week, but the Greek guard has insisted he has no regrets about moving to the NBA last year. The 25-year-old is training with the Greek national team this week in the buildup to the EuroBasket, and he is expected to re-sign with Panathinaikos in the coming days as he closes the door on an unhappy spell in the NBA with the Houston Rockets. But despite his failure to make a move to the United States work, Spanoulis is happy to have tried. "I am happy that I went there last year," he said. "I don't regret anything. It was a great experience for me. It was a childhood dream to play in the NBA, I was lucky to live it. "Now I have a clearer idea of what I want. If I had never gone to the NBA, maybe it would be something I would have regretted for the rest of my career. That won't happen now. Spanoulis, a 2004 draft selection by the Dallas Mavericks, joined the Houston Rockets last June with the Texas club hoping he could show some of the form that had made him a dominant force in European basketball with Panathinaikos. Instead, he struggled for form and playing time, averaging only 2.7 points and 0.7 rebounds per game in 8.8 minutes. Unhappy with life in the United States, Spanoulis sought a way out of his three-year contract so he could return to Greece. It took a trade to the San Antonio Spurs. The Rockets got the rights to Argentinian Luis Scola and Jackie Butler for Spanoulis and a 2009 second round pick to speed things along. The Rockets did not want to lose Spanoulis for no return, but the Spurs were happy to help engineer the move in a deal that allowed them meet salary cap requirements. Spanoulis never had a problem with his Houston team-mates it was life away from his family that had him aching for a return to Greece. "My family is the most important thing for me," he said. "They are the world to me. It was tough for all of us to be apart all this time. If I had stayed in the NBA, my brother (who plays basketball in the Greek second division) was going to come to the United States. Nothing is more important than family." Spanoulis has now agreed a three-year deal to resume his career with Panathinaikos, and is waiting for the necessary clearance to be granted by the Greek basketball federation. That is expected on Monday or Tuesday. "I am happy that I'll be back," said Spanoulis, who won the Greek title with the Greens in 2005-06 prior to joining the Rockets. "I know where I am going. I know them and they know me. I was feeling part of the team even when I was in Houston because they always treated me the right way." But while he is looking forward to a fresh start, Spanoulis hopes to stay in touch with some of the friends he left behind in Houston. "I was truly lucky to have such great teammates", he said of the Rockets. "I am grateful about the way they behaved towards me in a difficult year. They are nice guys and I want to keep alive some friendships I made with them and the people in Houston."
I can see I am upsetting you as evident by your live webcam. Please don't take iit so personally just swallow your puke and forget about it.
VSpan played during practice too... If he was any good and can lead a team to 82-0 you think Van Gundy wouldn't use him? Use your head. It was a basketball decision. I like VSpan's man to man defense and his self confidence. What I don't like is his inability to adapt to Van Gundy's system which the rest of the players were following. If you are a coach you are not going to change your entire system for a bench player. You can't say that it was a bad system because we had 50+ wins in a very tough division. VSpan didn't want to improve his jump shots, and didn't want to adapt. So he didn't get to play. It's just that simple.
Again this is how it is, it's just that simple............. This is like a White House press briefing the way so many people make such bold statements off completely baseless or unknown "facts." Let me try> Alston only did what Van Gundy told him to. Shoot no matter how many times you brick it. Shoot no matter how bad you are at it. Shoot no matter how many losses it causes the Rockets. He was only doing what Van Gundy's system called for......... JVG = fired wait did it again, DAMN IT I actually used logic based on what happened Let me try again......... VSpan played during practice too... If he was any good and can lead a team to 82-0 you think Van Gundy wouldn't use him? Use your head. It was a basketball decision. I like VSpan's man to man defense and his self confidence. What I don't like is his inability to adapt to Van Gundy's system which the rest of the players were following. If you are a coach you are not going to change your entire system for a bench player. You can't say that it was a bad system because we had 50+ wins in a very tough division. VSpan didn't want to improve his jump shots, and didn't want to adapt. So he didn't get to play. It's just that simple. Yep that's how it's done. How would this board look if we started doing this with all the players?
It really is scary how obsessed you are with Spanoulis. He's gone. Get over it. We have a good team. Lets please talk about something else on this board.
Why don't you post the link to any Span thread I started. Go head do it. Also, am I misreading the title of this thread? If not discuss Spanoulis here then what the weather perhaps?
You are suggesting we use a guy like VSpan who shot a lower FG% than Rafer and causes way more turnovers. So why bother bring up the "bricks" arguments? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFZaak_kGZY JVG said it clearly. VSpan will play if he plays well. It's not hard to understand... he just didn't play well so he didn't get his minutes. You keep saying that he didn't play enough so we don't know his real stats. But he played in practices too. If he shot like 50% and had 0 turnovers, you think JVG is crazy enough not to play him? There was a picture with practice stats earlier and VSpan's stats were terrible... You are defending a rookie that wants to quit NBA after one season because he didn't get his minutes. You are not going to win this argument.
honestly that is the truth. people try to make their extensive arguments valid but the fact is he didn't show up in practice or in play. how hard is it to understand that, you don't have to write an essay to realize that. if everyone loves Spanoulis so much go watch Greece basketball, I'll stick with the NBA.
You actually are arguing that there isn't a 5-19 3 point shooting to be found from Alston? Never mind that on top of that Spanoulis could get to the foul line. Yeah I am sure Rafer was definitely the guy to have shoot because that's what the brilliant VG system dictates. 1. If JVG's system is about getting an open point guard the open look then JVG is without question the most brilliant basketball mind ever he is without doubt the greatest coach ever. He got from the defense what he wanted every time. 2. If he's the greatest coach ever why was he fired? I mean he literally got what he wanted EVERY TIME against the D. What other basketball genius could have devised this same brilliant scheme? Wait I know, when you play ball at the Y you always leave that one guy open............ Bill Walton once said: "If you are being left open all the time there is a reason why. It's because you can't shoot worth a damn and the other coach told his players to leave you open so you might shoot it and cause a lost possession for your team. Grow a brain and stop falling for it." In JVG's world and apparently many fans here this = "Way to go Rafer, keep up the good work." Let's be serious here people.
Well, Vspan was turnover prone but no less than Steve Nash and Dwayne Wade. Jeff Van Gundy's pet peeve was turnovers and making mistakes. He was on Yao's butt all the time for being butter fingers and getting the ball stripped. Yao by the way ranks 20th in the NBA on turnovers but his low post presence and scoring ability makes him too valuable to sit. Not saying Vspan is as good as Nash or D. Wade but this is the objective stats on Vspan's per 48 min turnovers. Attacking penetrating guards always rack up a bunch of turnovers. Slow Centers who have the ball a lot in the post also get stripped a bunch too. Here are the NBA Stats per 48 on turnovers http://www.nba.com/statistics/playe...ied=N&yearsExp=-1&sortOrder=3&splitDD=Default PLAYER NAME, TEAM NAME GP MPG TO TOPG TOP48 AST/TO STL/TO 1 Mile Ilic , NJN 5 1.2 3 .6 24.5 .00 .00 2 Roger Powell , UTA 3 4.4 3 1.0 10.8 .00 .00 3 * Chris McCray , MIL 5 2.4 2 .4 8.1 .00 .00 4 Vitaly Potapenko , SAC 3 4.3 2 .7 7.5 .00 .00 5 David Harrison , IND 24 7.9 26 1.1 6.6 .23 .19 6 * Pops Mensah-Bonsu , DAL 12 5.9 9 .8 6.1 .00 .11 7 Uros Slokar , TOR 20 3.6 9 .4 6.0 .11 .11 8 * Andreas Glyniadakis , SEA 13 6.2 9 .7 5.4 .11 .00 9 Dwyane Wade , MIA 51 37.9 216 4.2 5.4 1.78 .50 10 Orien Greene , IND 41 6.2 28 .7 5.3 .79 .61 11 Dwayne Jones , CLE 4 4.6 2 .5 5.3 .00 .00 12 Michael Sweetney , CHI 48 8.0 42 .9 5.2 .67 .21 13 * Marcus Williams , NJN 79 16.6 142 1.8 5.2 1.83 .20 14 * Andre Brown , SEA 38 7.1 29 .8 5.1 .07 .21 15 Steve Nash , PHX 76 35.3 287 3.8 5.1 3.08 .20 16 * Vassilis Spanoulis , HOU 31 8.8 29 .9 5.1 .97 .24 17 Dwight Howard , ORL 82 36.9 317 3.9 5.0 .50 .22 18 Eddy Curry , NYK 81 35.2 295 3.6 5.0 .23 .12 19 T.J. Ford , TOR 75 29.9 231 3.1 4.9 2.58 .44 20 Ming Yao , HOU 48 33.8 167 3.5 4.9 .56 .10 21 * Tyrus Thomas , CHI 72 13.4 94 1.3 4.7 .43 .49 22 Jackie Butler , SAS 11 9.4 10 .9 4.7 .50 .20 23 Allen Iverson , DEN-PHI 65 42.5 268 4.1 4.7 1.75 .46 24 Bonzi Wells , HOU 28 21.1 57 2.0 4.6 .54 .42 25 Junior Harrington , MEM 29 18.7 52 1.8 4.6 1.71 .40 26 Danny Fortson , SEA 14 11.3 15 1.1 4.6 .07 .07 27 Carmelo Anthony , DEN 65 38.2 234 3.6 4.5 1.06 .33 28 Tony Allen , BOS 33 24.4 75 2.3 4.5 .75 .65 29 Sarunas Jasikevicius , GSW-IND 63 15.4 90 1.4 4.4 1.91 .29 30 Ben Gordon , CHI 82 33.0 249 3.0 4.4 1.19 .26 31 Jamaal Tinsley , IND 72 31.0 200 2.8 4.3 2.47 .58 32 * Sergio Rodriguez , POR 67 12.9 77 1.1 4.3 2.83 .46 33 Zach Randolph , POR 68 35.7 215 3.2 4.3 .68 .25 34 Ike Diogu , IND-GSW 59 12.9 67 1.1 4.2 .37 .12 35 * Damir Markota , MIL 30 5.7 15 .5 4.2 .40 .20 36 Corey Maggette , LAC 75 30.5 201 2.7 4.2 1.04 .32 37 Paul Pierce , BOS 47 37.0 152 3.2 4.2 1.28 .32 38 Baron Davis , GSW 63 35.3 193 3.1 4.2 2.64 .70 39 * Ryan Hollins , CHA 27 6.9 16 .6 4.1 .06 .25 40 Amare Stoudemire , PHX 82 32.8 232 2.8 4.1 .36 .34 41 Alan Anderson , CHA 17 15.0 22 1.3 4.1 .96 .32 42 Josh Smith , ATL 72 36.8 227 3.2 4.1 1.04 .44 43 Andre Iguodala , PHI 76 40.3 261 3.4 4.1 1.66 .58 44 Reggie Evans , DEN 66 17.1 95 1.4 4.0 .47 .44 45 Jerome James , NYK 41 6.7 23 .6 4.0 .13 .26 46 Tracy McGrady , HOU 71 35.8 213 3.0 4.0 2.15 .43 47 Monta Ellis , GSW 77 34.3 221 2.9 4.0 1.44 .60 48 Shaquille O'Neal , MIA 40 28.4 95 2.4 4.0 .83 .08 49 Deron Williams , UTA 80 36.9 246 3.1 4.0 3.03 .32 50 Jermaine O'Neal , IND 69 35.6 203 2.9 4.0 .82 .25
Turnovers per 48 minutes is not exactly a good metric to use because it doesn't take into account the fact that Nash/Wade/Yao use more possessions in their PT than Spanoulis does. Turnover rate measures that, and by turnover rate, Yao/Wade/Nash are all around 12-13 while Spanoulis is at 19. http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/glossary.html
ok I'll give ya that..they are all still lumped pretty close together on TO's. What separates Nash and Wade from other PG's are their TO/AST Ratios.
Ya know, I just thought about that last post of mine. That doesnt make sense cause Nash and Wade's TO/Ast Ratios are high and that's not what you want. You want low numbers.
I'm suprised that there is another thread concerning V-Span and JVG, both of whom are now no longer with the Rockets. As for V-Span, all I have to say about him is that if he joined the team a season earlier (2005-06) than last season, he would have gotten more PT than what he got last season because of all the injuries that plagued that 2005-06 team, and maybe he might possibly still be with the team. Nobody should forget that JVG was forced to play guys more minutes that season that he wasn't planning to play much, such as Luther Head, due to the injuries. As far as earning PT is concerned, he may still have to earn it next fall with Panathinaikos after having been away for one season, which could teach him that earning PT is not something confined to just the NBA. Also, didn't that team just get through winning its league championship without him?
What separates them from other players is the number of positive plays (assists and other things) they cause on offense in relation to their TOs. Nash handles the ball so much of the time when Phoenix is on offense I wouldn't expect his TOs to be that low. I think the Suns offense is too dependent on him. On the other hand, Wade does have a TO problem. There are times when his concentration lapses during games and he does dumb things. This is a flaw he needs to work on. Even so, he's still a top 5 player in the NBA.
Man ppl can't get over V-Span.Like he contributed 20 ppg not 2 nor 0.9 asists and 45645465 turnovers!He didn't fit in JVG system!OVER!Francis,James,Alston and now Brooks and even JL3 is too much for him.
It was apparent and readily observable that JVG loved rafer playing and shooting all those bricks that he would play him close to 40 minutes a game even on back-to-back nights. I think the question isn't whether Spanoulis is that good, the question is whether Alston is that good compared to Spanoulis and what justified JVG's "man-love" for rafer's three point shooting and lack of courage to take it strong to the basket? The doctrine of res ipsa loquitor applies to rafer alston... "the thing speaks for itself"... if you look at his stats he had one of the worst shooting performances in rockets history I'm sure more often than not some of us fans were screaming at the TV screen everytime rafer launched one of those many ill-advised three point attempts but JVG seemed non-chalant about it. Now owing to our tragic loss to Utah in the playoffs, a little fact-finding is in order. This in light of another historic breakdown in the 2005 playoffs against the Mavs. the point is JVG is more responsible for these losses more than anyone else, his offensive ineptitude overshadows whatever strengths he had. If he only recognized the problem earlier in the season and coordinated with management, we would have traded rafer and vspan or made some move to address the lack of shooting and penetration in the PG position . Anyway, to end... here is how San Antonio beat Utah up 2 games to 1 from NBA.com - With each drive to the basket and each fall to the floor - flop or not - Manu Ginobili made the Utah Jazz and their fans angrier and angrier. Players and coaches complained to the refs. Fans booed, threw things and popped balloons. All Ginobili did was keep hitting his free throws, pushing the San Antonio Spurs to a 91-79 victory Monday night and a 3-1 lead in the Western Conference finals. Ginobili scored 22 points, 15 coming in the fourth quarter and 11 of those coming from the foul line. San Antonio was 19-of-25 on free throws in the final period, with four of the attempts courtesy of technical fouls. "I'm very proud of what we did in the fourth quarter because it was looking ugly for us,'' Ginobili said. "We stepped up and did a really good job.'' Some of the calls Ginobili got were questionable, but the key was he forced the action after not doing "too much to get under their skin the first three quarters.'' The Jazz weren't about to let him get to the rim easily and wound up losing their temper as the foul calls mounted. Utah drew four technicals fouls down the stretch, leading to the ejection of coach Jerry Sloan and usually mild-mannered Derek Fisher. Jazz fans saw their team lose at home for the first time in eight games this postseason. Of all the blows landed in this game, the most severe is to Utah's comeback hopes. After a 26-point win in Game 3, the Jazz felt good about their chances to pull off a historic comeback but now will have to win Game 5 in San Antonio on Wednesday night just to bring the series back to Salt Lake City. Utah has lost 18 straight games in San Antonio dating to 1999." JVG will never learn from the mistakes of history and will never acknowledge his big blunder of letting alston shoot all those bricks during the regular season and the playoffs. I submit that the rockets won those 52 games in the regular season in spite of rafer alston shooting those bricks and JVG defending him all the way.
Agreed! Well said. I've thought about this and even went and looked it up. Spanoulis's case with JVG is not unique. Van Gundy has a history of not playing Euros. He didn't do it in New York and he didn't do it in Houston. Nachbar was glued to the pine too but here's what I have to say about Boki. I admire him a lot more than Vspan cause Boki stuck it out. Look at him now. He's getting his chance with the NJ Nets. He played well last season when the coach finally gave him minutes. Whether or not Boki would have gotten minutes with JVG is another story.
Span is handicapped by JVG's little system. He is the nemesis of JVG's stale, static, clogging up the lane, no systematic ball movement, no quality pick and roll, over emphasizing three point shooting kind of system. You see, if JVG adjusts to let Span play his game, then JVG is lost on offense. If Span adjusts to JVG's system, then Span is lost on offense. There's no common basketball language between the two. With the stubborn Yao Ming Must Clog up the Paint doctrine on board, there is no room for guys who can't shoot 3's. With low post play clogging up the lane, there's no room for guys who can't shoot the 3 but proficient in slashing and penetration. Guys like Bonzi, Span and Snyder, the slasher without a three pointers are shafted under JVG, because JVG can't adapt. But JVG is an excuse master. The win now crap is an excuse to cover up his phobia towards risks, then Yao became his another excuse to execute an overly simple minded offense without flavor. JVG sucks.
