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Harden vs Doncic: An Interesting Observation

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Spacemoth, Dec 2, 2019.

  1. jordnnnn

    jordnnnn Member

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    Saying Harden is less likely to pass the ball to an open teammate as a negative attribute to his game is akin to saying Giannis is less likely to score as many points as Harden.

    Technically true, but not by much.

    Harden is 5th in potential assists and 4th in points created off assists. Doncic is slightly better in both.

    Goldsberry on Harden in his article today claiming he’s clearly the best offensive player since Jordan....

    “He also almost always makes the right play and is more than willing to give the ball up. This season, he's creating 20.9 points per game via assists. On the 14% of iso possessions when Harden passes, Houston generates 1.19 points. One other underrated Harden edge is that he only has 12 total turnovers out of isolations all season, making up just 3% of his solo plays.”

    “Maybe hero ball isn't so bad after all. What's wrong with watching a virtuoso? What's so bad about a strategy that showcases the world's best scorer on repeat? Maybe the Rockets are an acquired taste, but I found myself loving every minute of Harden's masterpiece Saturday night. He was making perfect decisions every time down the floor. If you're not impressed, I don't know what to tell you, except that James Harden is a harbinger of what's next. Just watch this season's breakout sensation, Luka Doncic, and you'll see that the future of the league is bending toward Hardenism.”
     
    #61 jordnnnn, Dec 3, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2019
  2. HP3

    HP3 Member

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    This is some good info bro, thanks for this.

    Yea, he's not gonna draw more fouls than Harden now, but the fact that he's even comparable to Harden(even in a down year is crazy) that FTA% is only going to trend upwards, not downwards. As Luka cements himself as a top player in this league he will be getting more calls not less. And people will notice the number of free throws he gets every game and the manner in which he draws them. There wont be a "significant" difference to the average watcher after awhile ether. I wonder how he will be perceived in say...his 5th year in the league.
     
  3. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Carlisle is the best coach in basketball at spacing and he also has the luxury of getting Doncic at a point where he is easy to mold.

    Harden has been through some bad coaches (Brooks/McHale/Bickerstaff) and early on saw Durant and Westbrook essentially be the offense.

    When Harden was Doncic's age or had his experience, he was very much working within the framework of the offense.

    I do see some differences when I watch and compare them. Doncic is more likely to cut to the basket and also go for the rebound than Harden.

    Some of that is scheme, some of that is the background of both players, some of that is the age and roles they both have.

    I will say this, while I have liked Doncic since he was 15 years old, and expected him to be a top 2-3 player in the world at his peak...... right now, he isn't as good as Harden. There are long periods of time during games when Harden cannot be stopped by anyone except James Harden. Doncic has periods like that as well, but it is more match up specific.

    Consider that we have played roughly 25% of the season and Harden has already had at least 6-7 times where he has gone on to score an incredible amount of points in a short period of time.... usually in the second half of games...... He has had numerous bursts were he has scored like 12-15 points in a 2-4 minute span giving the Rockets the lead or closing out quarters.
     
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  4. Nook

    Nook Member

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    It really shouldn't even be a controversial opinion, as it is a fact that Harden is unquestionably the best offensive since Jordan. In fact a lot of the high advances statistics have Harden equal to or above Jordan as an offensive player.

    Honestly, the young players around the league that are emerging are in the same mold and mind set of Harden........... Doncic, Young, Young and LaVine are the most obvious two, but even players that are contemporaries of Harden like Beal and Lillard have incorporated a lot of his style and strategy.
     
  5. Reeko

    Reeko Member

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    I’m not gonna disrespect Harden by calling him the “Black Doncic”...to me, that implies that they’re peers or on the same level

    Harden is the pioneer...Luka is the talented pupil

    Luka should be calling James Harden-sama, Harden sensei, or gawd James

    Get back to me when Doncic is consistently winning 50+ games in the West with mediocre rosters and averaging 39 while getting doubled at all times.
     
  6. steddinotayto

    steddinotayto Contributing Member

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    Doncic hits a stepback 3 = "This kid is truly special!" every talking head
    Harden hits a stepback 3 = "LOL he just traveled" same talking head
     
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  7. Stephen_A

    Stephen_A Member

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    That’s not the definition of systemic racism. I rear my case.
     
  8. iNoseBleedRed

    iNoseBleedRed Member

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    They are both similar in that they are not similar at all
     
  9. J Sizzle

    J Sizzle Member

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    Luka just won Player of the Month over Harden

    Just another year of media favoritism
     
  10. zeeshan2

    zeeshan2 Member

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    #70 zeeshan2, Dec 3, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2019
    Deuce, jordnnnn and Nook like this.
  11. hooroo

    hooroo Member

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    It's the soccer diving people see and have grown to hate.
     
  12. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

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    Per 36 minutes in month of November ...

    Doncic: 33.8 min/g, 34.5 pts, 11.0 reb, 11.1 ast, 4.9 tov, 63.9 ts%, +11.0 plus/minus
    Harden: 36.9 min/g, 38.5 pts, 6.2 reb, 7.4 ast, 5.0 tov, 65.3 ts%, +11.6 plus/minus

    On a per minute basis Doncic looks to be deserving. Harden does play about 3 more minutes per game on average.
     
  13. Reeko

    Reeko Member

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    the game isn’t played per 36, and Harden faces more defensive attention getting doubled every possession

    Luka winning POTM over Harden is such a joke...the even bigger joke is Melo winning POTW

    Luka will get anointed and crowned for being the closest thing we got to James Harden, the same James Harden that is constantly getting derided...what a time to be alive
     
  14. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

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    That is true, which is why I noted that Harden plays more minute per game. Per minute stats is more indicative of the player’s level of activity in the time they are on the court. Whether rate stats or total stats (rate stats multiplied by time on the floor) are more meaningful for awards like this is a matter of opinion.
     
  15. mike2k132

    mike2k132 Member

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    black doncic is not a compliment ti harden lol. how can the imataition be as good as the orginal.

    white harden is a compliment since donic isnt as good as harden.

    he baby harden.

    when he gets u 37 a game holla back at me.


    harden already had the season luka havibg nowm with a muxh better record
     
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  16. pippendagimp

    pippendagimp Member

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    same shhit as with curry, silver trying to curry favor w/ the suburban market
     
  17. jordnnnn

    jordnnnn Member

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    Agree here. Luka winning wasn’t egregious. He had an unreal month. Although I do believe that if it REALLY was strictly awarded off of basketball performance Harden is more deserving, but again this wasn’t a bad decision.

    Melo with player of the week. Westbrook’s MVP. These are the type of things that should piss people off.
     
  18. marky :)

    marky :) Member

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  19. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

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    Oh, player of the month honors was actually for Oct/Nov, but just November. Hmmm — I think Harden has a better case, especially considering the injuries. Might have been the loss to the Mavs at home that swung it.
     
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  20. pippendagimp

    pippendagimp Member

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    not egregious, but also not unexpected. as has been the case in previous years, if anyone else has close stats they will win. harden has to separate himself far above any other challenger in order to have a chance at any league award
     
    mike2k132 likes this.

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