reactionary? A bit. But kind of the point. And his isn't an "I hate Harden" post. He is what he is. I don't think he's quitting or failing the city. I just think he is what he is. the Rockets have some case studies in the past for comparison on what to do with stars in the crosshairs. Hakeem - they thought hard about moving him. He'd been farther with the Rockets (a Finals). There was a feud with ownership. But ultimately they kept him and found a way to build a team around him that was championship worthy. Credit to Hakeem he adjusted his game. Francis - they moved on from him at the exact right time. And got a great return... McGrady - held on too long. Multiple playoff failures. Kept trying. Then he injuries. Dwight - held on too long. But I guess to be fair to management they were coming off a WCF appearance and they did try to move him when she hit the fan. Alternatively Dwight wasn't a key piece that year and it was already clear So... here we are with Harden. Things that aren't reactionary. He'll always be a liability defensively. He'll always turn the ball over too much. He'll never be an amazing 3 point shooter. His game will always be too reliant on FTAs which ultimately he won't get to the same degree in the playoff sense. He'll never be the most clutch. He might grow into some clutch moments but we know what he is now against better competition. On the positive side he's a legitimate offensive force. Because of his uniqueness - a 6'5 point guard that you can build a system around and he can take lesser players into the playoffs. He rebounds better than average. He can find guys and deliver passes in the right spots. He can get incredibly hot some games. He seems to want to be great. Obviously you don't give Harden away. Obviously if you think there's a legit chance of another all star player joining the squad you keep rolling Harden out there. BUT... but but but.... if there's anyone in the league who could maybe return a ransom isn't that Harden? To me... Harden is basically Westbrook. Amazing in their own ways and flawed in their own ways. I don't see Westbrook winning a championship as guy #1 nor do I see Harden doing it. Add in another fact - the Warriors are a dynasty. A dynasty in their prime. Or younger than their prime. And the Rockets are farther away than one thought. Gordon Hayward doesn't get this team that much further. Oh btw the Rockets can't afford him as of yet and why would he come? What if Steph has a season ending injury? Warriors still favored. What if KD goes out? Warriors still favored. What if Steph and KD go out? Lol... maybe Rockets have a chance then. What am I advocating? I don't know. Put out some feelers? See what you can get in return? Types of packages I'd consider: - Avery Bradley + 2017 Nets pick + a Celtics stash - Wiggins + LaVine + TWolves draft pick - MAYBE a stacked Lakers offer (Ingram, Randle, 2017 pick). Maybe even more... Magic would want him and expect to be able to just lure free agents - Jokic plus Gary Harris (though not sure why Denver does this?) Do the above make the Rockets better? Absolutely not. But do they shortcut the next 5 years of close but nowhere close to a cigar? Maybe. The Toronto GM is, rightly, talking about major culture change. Unfortunately for Toronto they don't really have a path to do that. Lowry is a FA. He's potentially leaving. The Clippers need a culture reset. But unfortunately for them their key assets are FAs. CP3, Blake, JJ... not tradeable because FAs. Sorry for long post. Seems virtually impossible this happens. But would love some other logic based thoughts. Too reactionary?
this is ridiculous. just understand, every trade you suggested is perhaps the most stupid thing ive ever read. every gm on those respective teams would kill themselves for harden. just stop, seriously stop. we lost. harden sucked. doesn't mean you should even consider trading him.
Figuring in the ENTIRE season, nope. If you told me "Rockets lose in 6 games to the Spurs in the 2nd round," at the start of the season I'd take that. If you told me we were the 3rd seed, 3rd best team in the NBA record wise. I'd take that. If you told me Harden would be an MVP candidate. I'd take that. Unlike Tmac and Francis, Harden is an MVP caliber player. Harden is far more accomplished than those two ever were. EVEN if he's not your #1 guy, he'd be an amazing #2. Harden doesn't grow on trees. You're not finding another player out there like him at the snape of your fingers.
Depends on how long GSW can keep their core 4 together. I don't foresee anyone besides SA beating them in a 7 game series, so if GS is able to keep their core for the next 4 years, I wouldn't mind trading Harden for a great return. Obviously, the team that Harden goes to will, of course, be better than us due to the nature of us trading for picks. But if Harden + Moreyball doesn't work, then there's no reason to keep Harden around and hope for second stars. It's going to take a lot to topple SA and GS.
Morey will not piss off potential free agents by sending an all-star to a team he doesn't want to go to. Won't happen.
I'm not a reactionary poster. Just a logical one. It is what it is. If you think there's a path to a championship ring in the next 4 years so be it. I'm not sold. Fair enough. Alternatively you're either making strong strides forward or kind of just playing for the inevitable. This team ends next season with a loss, too. They did much better than anticipated. But we also know they kind of are what they are. As I said in the beginning. This is t even necessarily a Harden can't do it thread. It's the team is very far away even if there a tier above many other squads. Im not interested in second place finishes. And if second or worse is inevitable - as it seems to be for the next 3-4 years why not seriously plan it out a bit different. Especially if the alternative is to be close but not that close while the Warriors steamroll, the Spurs continue to outwork everyone not named the Warriors and other teams are on the up and up?
Well it won't happen regardless. But even if something did happen... I don't think Harden would be pissed. Like the trades I randomly proposed... those put him in great situations for him.
Morey isn't fielding the same team next year. We know that. He's going to do something. I get what you're saying, but I don't get blowing it up now and conceding to the Warriors vs blowing it up 3-4 years later? I just don't get it. We have Harden now. We don't know what will happen the next 2-3 years. Durant could fight with Curry, could blow out his ACL, Green could go to Detroit...Lebron is going to hit the age cliff any year now... It makes little sense to me to trade Harden right now. Build a better team, go at it for next year.
What's the point of blowing up the team and giving up Harden for assets? Unless a godlike player is coming out of the draft, there is not point. Plus there isn't enough talent right now in the NBA to take on the massive Warriors/Cavs. If we give up harden, we are basically going back to NBA purgatory, where we are not sht enough to tank and not good enough to get into playoffs.
Were in a tough place right now in terms of building to win a championship. It's almost impossible thanks to the Warriors and Cavs. If you have normal teams that had 1 or 2 superstars and good supporting cast (Spurs for example) you can try again next year with some re-tooling but there's almost no free agent signing or move in the offseason that would make you a legitimate threat to the warriors. Even as dominant as the spurs looked at times in this series they have no chance against the warriors either.
The guys still has a few years on him. His game isn't completely dependent on athleticism. It is all about craftiness and ability to score. We are not talking about westbrook here. The guy just needs help. Is morey and les now willing to get him that help. We aren't talking about 18 mill for a streaky pf. Or an injury prone sg in eric gordon. I am talking about getting him 2 other legit stars to play with and a solid bench. That can take minutes so they can breathe. Just look at this year's payroll. I believe we are number 23. We did great for a 90 mill team.
I agree, the only way I'd do it is if the next Lebron was coming up and the team with the #1 pick was willing to give it up. This draft class IMO is meh. Lonzo Ball will be Jason Kidd at best, I don't know what to think of Futz, I don't care about the other players.
There's only so much Morey can do. The best case scenarios would involve losing Ryan Anderson and gaining back either Hayward or Blake Griffin (forced sign and trade). That team is a projected 2nd round exit, imo. It could get to the 3rd round maybe but would lose in a short series to the Warriors. I get that "anything can happen" and the Warriors could blow it up. Except that won't happen. The Warriors can afford to resign everyone and why wouldn't you? So I'm basically rooting for multiple serious injuries to the Warriors? That's no fun. In this dumb hypothetical thread anyway... take it up a notch Avery bradley, 2017 Nets first (likely a top 2 pick), 2018 Nets first pick, and one of their stashes (Zizic or the French Draymond). That's a haul
gonna turn 28 this summer, odds are he doesn't keep having injury-free seasons going forward, his mental makeup is a trainwreck, has some fat potential.......have to at least consider what you might get in return
