Daryl Morey: Argument could be made for James Harden to be called best offensive player ever

Ok but are you implying Harden is a foolish case of the GOAT offensive player with your assertions?

 

And what’s your point? Are you somehow smarter than everyone in the room through self proclamation?

 

Harden> Kobe in regular season

But in the playoffs Kobe got further and had more Finals appearances to support his claim.

The media has a point when talking about the Playoffs, Harden is lacking in Finals appearances for a reason (GSW).

Harden does not have enough numbers in the Finals because he only made the Finals once and not in a Rockets uni.

So there is no saying Harden is much more clutch offensively in the Finals because there is not much data to claim it!

We could strictly talk about WCF performances and I bet Kobe is in the conversation and might have the upper hand.

 

Also, Shaq says "hi".

 

Yeah he did, also Pau Gasol said hi.

Shaq would not have won 3 without a legit sidekick.

I am not even close to being a Kobe homer but people are really shetting on Kobe right now.

His ability was never to be efficient but to close out important games and for morale purposes!

Efficiency is Harden's strong suit - Kobe's was his athleticism, iron will to win (competitiveness), his killer instinct and getting into players' heads.

Compare flaws to flaws/ strenghts to strengths not the other way round.

 

Both great players, no doubt.

 

Honestly, you're talking about a whole other thing. I'm only talking about who has the greatest offensive production in history. You're talking about playoffs and clutchness and all that - I think it's a different thread.

 

Even tho Morey is technically right, I wish he didn't say these thing so publicly because they're only used against Harden by the usual haters in the media. If Harden can keep this up and put up similar numbers in the playoffs, respect will naturally come. You don't have to force it out of people by making such proclamations.

 

Not only that. Harden and Kobe's difference is minimal on offense and not as glaring as Harden's defensive attempts vs Kobe's defensive outputs.

The thing is why was there no Harden's best offensive player of Alltime debate in October or weeks into November?

You dun talk about him when he is having a 'low' or when he cools off, and comes down to earth?

You take the whole season into account and not just those December, January and possibly February months when Harden normally goes on a run.

Not talking about another thing. Somebody posted a Colin Cowherd Special and I reacted to what he said.
He talked thru those points. Distinctly.

 

So his arguments are

Bryant 'looks' more athletic

Bryant has better offensive moves (hahahahah, no he never did)

Bryant is a better defender.....argument has literally nothing to do with defense

Bryant had bigger playoff moments...well yes, that's going to happen when you ride Shaq and Gasol into the playoffs each year


Wow, and I thought I liked Cowherd, this is bad, this is REALLY bad.

 

I'm glad you made a list and I'm ready to devise my first round of cuts from the list, let's see how you agree.

Wilt
Bird
Shaq
Nash
Dirk
Cp3

Leaving the following 9.

Kareem
Oscar
Magic
Jordan
Kobe
Lebron
Durant
Curry
Harden

who do you cut from the list @durvasa

 

You're talking about defense now. I really just don't understand. Whatever Colin Cowherd said, it's not about strictly offensive efficiency and production. No one is saying Harden is one of the greatest players in history. Your points are all excellent for that discussion. Harden is not even the greatest Rocket ever. He is certainly the greatest offensive Rocket ever, and in the conversation for one of the best offensive players ever.

I feel like you've been wanting to talk about how Harden is not as good as a lot of guys in the playoffs and on defense. I think you should start a separate thread for that. It's its own valid discussion.

 

The reason I was partly talking about the defense is you cannot really separate both ends no more.

Maybe you could as a fan but if you watched games.

Getting stops fuel the offense for the Rockets as much as for the Warriors, other teams.

It's really hard to separate both ends as I said earlier.

2) Cowherd's video

I think you could argue that the most unguardable guy does not have the most versatile arsenal of offensive moves.

He is arguing that the best offensive player also has to be aesthetically 'elite', have a more beautiful game for the eye of the beholder.

He has a point when you change the angle.

Conclusion: I said multiple times that Harden is the best offensive guy in this era, I dun want to get it into the Alltime conversation because of different rules, maybe better ref decisions, Kobe and Jordan really having to go against much better Centers or at least taller and heavier Centers who physically wore them down, having to work harder for their points banging bodies due to eras of not taking that many 3s.

 

he might be in the conversation but his playoff percentages is what his detractors will hold against him.

 

Not like his numbers are that much worse in the playoffs though. Very slight drop.
How many players in the history of the NBA got even better in the playoffs statistically? MJ, Bron and Hakeem? How many stayed exactly consistent in the playoffs as regular season averages? Not many off the top of my head. Magic. Shaq, Kareem, Duncan, Iverson?
Usually most players in nba history have a slight drop to a big drop in playoff stats.

 

Morey didn't do Harden any favors. On a day people should only be praising Harden for his terrific game, now people are coming up with arguments why Harden isn't as good as this player or that player.

 

Tony Kornheiser: What? What are you talking about? This is not this week, this month. If it's all-time, there's Wilt Chamberlain who averaged 50 PPG for an entire season, not 40 and if it's all-time, when they used to play defense & now they don't, Michael Jordan would score 50 PPG because you cannot guard him. This is so incredibly stupid, I can't believe it.

Wilbon: I'm not gonna go with stupid on my man Daryl but one other problem Tony, James does this great between Halloween and the first of April. What happens in May & June? Has he done it then?

Tony: All-time no. Thank you. Great player, not all-time.

 

I think Harden not better than Kobe yet because Kobe got those 5 rings. Harden gotta get 1 so he can be in the convo tho.

Harden for me is better pure player than Kobe, but maybe Kobe still better as pure scorer. Close tho lol.

 

Not even trying to get into comparing Harden and Jordan but it really pained me to hear one of them say something like Harden only shot over 45% in 1 season of his career and MJ was almost always over 50%....how could he be the best...”

Is it so much to ask for people who pretend to follow basketball to understand the concept of the more 3s you shoot the lower your field goal percentage is going to be? MJ wasn’t hoisting 12 3s a game.

 

exactly what scares me
damn it