I'll admit, it's tough to support Trump at this point, but so far, there is no collusion if Trump did not reciprocate something in exchange for whatever information was given.
Just the mess that this has turned into has to be giving glorious Putin a hard on. The upheaval caused without even having to parachute Soviet troopers In some Colorado high school .
I haven't had much time to post or read in this forum but I've just skimmed through the last few pages. I have to say for those who are still defending Trump I'm not surprised that you are but this truly shows how much you've put party over any sense of principle. For as much as you try spin and call fake news we have the undisputible fact from the mouths of the perpetrators admitting that they had been told that an adversarial foreign government wanted to help them win an election and they even went to meet with who they believed was a representative of that government with the express intent of getting information provided by that government to use against their political oponent. If you cannot see how unethical that is and how that violates the spirit of the US democracy you are lost. If you cannot see the principles being violated and instead go through all sorts of gymnastics to justify your support then you've sold out your ethics. What is even worse is those who claim to have not voted for Trump yet who go to great lengths to defend his actions. At least those who voted for him might continue to believe that their defense of him is justification for a vote believed made in good conscience the rest of you seem to be indulging in nothing more than tribal hatred. What is more troubling though is that the leadership of Congress who as a coequal branch of government has the duty and power to provide oversight of the executive has yet to show that they are willing to do so. For most of them they appear lost also. I agree that treason is a very high bar and I also agree that criminal collusion is hard to prove. A modicum of ethics and competence though should be what is expected. This president and the close cabal of his family is showing neither. Further impeachment isn't a criminal process and neither Bill Clinton or Richard Nixon was criminally charged. One can only hope that enough of Congress eventually finds themselves to do the right thing.
I have seen this defense numerous times, as if Trump is being excused of getting together with his pal Putin one evening and while in front of Trump's Dell laptop started to program a hack. Another defense often tried is "there is no proof that any votes were after the fact changed". Or "no one I know that voted for Trump changed their vote to him based on the Clinton dirt released". And of course, when all that fails, the usual fall back to to "well, what about..." These excuses are ridiculous, and simply demonstrate an ongoing effort to avoid admitting the wrongs done by Trump and members of his closest circle. Not just working with the Russians to win the election, but the multiple and continual lies surrounding it. I understand the desire to not admit you were wrong. I also understand the partisan aspect... not wanting the "other side" to win. But at some point, love of country, and a basic acknowledgement of right vs wrong will hopefully surface.
And in the continuation of how the truth only comes out in bits and pieces... and I suppose the Russian ex-spy is now an adoption counselor? Russian Lawyer Brought Ex-Soviet Counter Intelligence Officer to Trump Team Meeting http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...unter-intelligence-officer-trump-team-n782851
Also, addressing the question as to whether "collusion" is against the law (Fox News Trump spokesman Greg Jarrett reported there is no such law). Of course, Jarrett's statement is a big fat FALSE. But more important, here are possible routes that Mueller can go to bring charges against Trump. And these three legal experts came up with four. I imagine the legal experts on Mueller's team will come up with more... Fox News host wrong that no law forbids Russia-Trump collusion http://www.politifact.com/punditfac...ws-hosts-wrong-no-law-forbids-russia-trump-c/
This meeting with Natalia the Russian lawyer seems to have been a bigger deal than the Trump folks are letting on.... SHOCKINGLY... Another Russian player in the meeting... Now why in the bloody hell would Trump and co. think it's just benign opposition research if a Russian intelligence official is joining the meeting?
He's working hard to try and reciprocate and pay Putin back even based on what we see in plain daylight. Look at the sanctions bill that they are stalling in the House right now. Look at Gorka admitting on live TV yesterday that they are actually considering allowing Russian spy's to return to their outposts that Obama kicked out. How can a patriotic American say with a straight face that this is a way to pay back a foreign power who meddled in our election? How can a poltical advisor say this is a smart poltical move? You know what it really looks like to most rational human beings.... a reward. The reciprocation at the time of this meeting in particular (Natalia meeting) is glaring off the page. She's in charge of lobbying for the Magnitsky act to be overturned which is essentially a Sanctions issue. Whatever she was offering in return it was sure as hell a quid pro quo related to Trump eventually getting those sanctions overturned and the Magnitsky act overturned. My concern is that Trump is on the clock to get these items done for Putin and in the harsh poltical climate, he is subject to blackmail by Putin so he does what he can for Russia against the best intentions for the US but is still feeling the heat and pressure to do more in fear of what Putin has on him. I dont know how any patriotic American can think it's a good idea that we have a potentially compromised President.
Curious if it turns out that Trump called into that meeting and there were audio tapes of that call, would that change Trump supporters opinions? Considering all the clear statements by Trump and Trump Junior that Trump was unaware of the meetings until "just a few days ago" (though already Trump is fudging that a bit and reports that his lawyers knew in June). Or... to Trump supporters, that wouldn't matter either?
No, not a chance for the vast majority of his followers, they would not drop their support. Facts and logic do not apply to these people.
You think folks like Comrade Texx and Bobbythenotsogreat are this dug in to all the sudden drop their opinions of Trump over Trump's involvement in this particular meeting, or the Russian scandal as a whole? Trump said it himself that he could shoot someone on 5th avenue and wouldn't lose a vote. It was eye rolling at the time, but now its completely obvious that he was right. Trump is bigger than a mortal person at this point to his followers. He's judged by his people unlike a normal man would be. Say what you want about the man's intellect, but he is smart in the way that he scams and markets himself as a brand. In this case of politics he found a way to brand himself as a messiah figure by going after the markets that are the most significantly ideological. No shock that the evangelical Christians are his bread and butter. He understands them and how to manipulate their thinking. They will never change their opinion of Donald J. Trump no matter what. As long as their idiot box propaganda machine keeps on telling them that he's their political messiah who can do no wrong.
AP reporting the additional and unreported Russian in the room: Russian-American lobbyist says he was in Trump son’s meeting https://www.apnews.com/dceed1008d8f...n-lobbyist-says-he-was-in-Trump-son's-meeting So it appears there were a larger number in the room than the Trump's reported. Apparently, someone (Kellyanne, from the couch?) took a photo of this meeting. The president is believe to be the man (with the Russian lawyer) in the suit in lower left of photo:
It's like Putin has turned on Two Scoops. Maybe Two Scoops told Putin that he can not drop the sanctions at this time? Mess with the bull and get the horns.
