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Cliven Bundy: Welfare Rancher & Insurgent

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by CometsWin, Apr 15, 2014.

  1. CometsWin

    CometsWin JOSE URQUIDY - oor-KID-ee
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    A wingnut's wet dream, an armed stand off with Feds. If the Feds were smart they'd just start picking these crazies up one by one instead of having wild west stand offs. What is the difference between a gang and one of these crazy militias anyway?

    U.S. Officials End Stand-Off With Nevada Rancher Cliven Bundy

    http://www.newsweek.com/us-officials-end-stand-nevada-rancher-cliven-bundy-246038

    BUNKERVILLE, Nevada (Reuters) - U.S. officials ended a stand-off with hundreds of armed protesters in the Nevada desert on Saturday, calling off the government's roundup of cattle it said were illegally grazing on federal land and giving about 300 animals back to the rancher who owned them.

    The dispute less than 80 miles northeast of Las Vegas between rancher Cliven Bundy and the U.S. Bureau of Land Management had simmered for days. Bundy had stopped paying fees for grazing his cattle on the government land and officials said he had ignored court orders.

    Anti-government groups, right-wing politicians and gun-rights activists camped around Bundy's ranch to support him in a standoff that tapped into long-simmering anger in Nevada and other Western states, where vast tracts of land are owned and governed by federal agencies.

    The bureau had called in a team of armed rangers to Nevada to seize the 1,000 head of cattle on Saturday but backed down in the interests of safety.

    "Based on information about conditions on the ground and in consultation with law enforcement, we have made a decision to conclude the cattle gather because of our serious concern about the safety of employees and members of the public," the bureau's director, Neil Kornze, said in a statement.

    The protesters, who at the height of the standoff numbered about 1,000, met the news with applause. Then they quickly advanced on the metal pens where the cattle confiscated earlier in the week were being held.

    After consultations with the rancher's family, the bureau decided to release the cattle it had rounded up, and the crowd began to disperse.

    "This is what I prayed for," said Margaret Houston, one of Bundy's sisters. "We are so proud of the American people for being here with us and standing with us."

    A number of Bundy's supporters, who included militia members from California, Idaho and other states, dressed in camouflage and carried rifles and sidearms. During the stand-off, some chanted "open that gate" and "free the people."

    A man who identified himself as Scott, 43, said he had traveled from Idaho along with two fellow militia members to support Bundy.

    "If we don't show up everywhere, there is no reason to show up anywhere," said the man, dressed in camouflage pants and a black flak jacket crouched behind a concrete highway barrier, holding an AR-15 rifle. "I'm ready to pull the trigger if fired upon," Scott said.

    Protesters cheer on horseback riders as they herd cattle that belongs to rancher Cliven Bundy after they were released near Bunkerville, Nevada April 12, 2014. Jim Urquhart/Reuters

    LONG-SIMMERING ANGER

    The dispute between Bundy and federal land managers began in 1993 when he stopped paying monthly fees of about $1.35 per cow-calf pair to graze public lands that are also home to imperiled animals such as the Mojave Desert tortoise. The government also claims Bundy has ignored cancellation of his grazing leases and defied federal court orders to remove his cattle.

    "We won the battle," said Ammon Bundy, one of the rancher's sons.

    The bureau said Cliven Bundy still owes taxpayers more than $1 million, which includes both grazing fees and penalties, and that it would work to resolve the matter administratively and through the court system.

    Jack Kay, a professor of communication at Eastern Michigan University and an expert on militias, said the federal government did well to step back from the conflict. "These things tend to escalate, someone looks like they're going to pull the trigger and then something happens," he said.

    Nevada Governor Brian Sandoval, who earlier in the week suggested the federal government had created an atmosphere of "intimidation," said in a statement on Saturday he welcomed the bureau's action. "Given the circumstances, today's outcome is the best we could have hoped for," he said.

    Hundreds of Bundy supporters, some heavily armed, had camped on the road leading to his ranch in a high desert spotted with sagebrush and mesquite trees. Some held signs reading "Americans united against government thugs," while others were calling the rally the "Battle of Bunkerville," a reference to a American Revolutionary War battle of Bunker Hill in Boston.

    The large crowd at one point blocked all traffic on Interstate 15. Later, as lanes opened up, motorists honked to support the demonstrators and gave them thumbs-up signs.

    In an interview prior to the bureau's announcement, Bundy said he was impressed by the level of support he had received.

    "I'm excited that we are really fighting for our freedom. We've been losing it for a long time," Bundy said.

    But an official with an environmental group that had notified the government it would sue unless federal land managers sought to protect tortoises on the grazing allotment used by Bundy's cattle expressed outrage at the end of the cattle roundup.

    "The sovereign militias are ruling the day," said Rob Mrowka, senior scientist with the Center for Biological Diversity. "Now that this precedent has been set and they're emboldened by the government's capitulation, what's to stop them from applying the same tactics and threats elsewhere?"

    Roger Taylor, retired district manager with the Bureau of Land Management in Arizona, also said the agency's decision to release the cattle will have repercussions.

    "The (agency) is going to be in a worse situation where they will have a much more difficult time getting those cattle off the land and getting Bundy in compliance with regulations," he said.
     
  2. mdrowe00

    mdrowe00 Member
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    Ha!

    Well, maybe those folks kind of understand now where the Native Americans were coming from all those years ago....:grin:

    But this is really an altogether dangerous precedent. "...No taxation without representation...", (which this, at best, is a specious example of) et al...

    ...there is such a hatred of the federal government that disobeying laws in this manner is probably seen as more patriotic than railing against misrepresented wars....

    I wonder if the civil rights movement in the 1960s would have worked if Negroes put on Army fatigues and carried around assault rifles...

    ...I mean, somebody would have dropped a nuke on a march like that...::cool:
     
  3. CometsWin

    CometsWin JOSE URQUIDY - oor-KID-ee
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    I'm guessing the Feds wouldn't have just ceded to their demands and called it a day. ;)
     
  4. Bäumer

    Bäumer Contributing Member

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    I find this troubling
    This moron is willing to drive hundreds of miles to help free cattle for a millionaire rancher and then defend them with his life? This is the fight you choose? I don't understand this accountant-wanting-to-be-a-soldier mentality. There are very few things I would kill and die for and those are people that I know and love. These guys show up with civilian-"tactical" gear that they bought on the internet or a gun show and want to play Rambo over some cows.

    Don't get me wrong, I think protesting is completely acceptable and possibly warranted here (I don't know all of the details) but for a middle aged (any age for that matter) man to show up armed and ready to shoot is just silly.

    Fox News doesn't see a problem with pepper spraying a bunch of UC Davis college kids sitting down and protesting but find these guys as heroes.

    'Murica to the extreme
     
  5. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Contributing Member

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    What are the circumstances surrounding this issue? That's an awfully large amount of money - so why should/would anyone support this man?

    This isn't surprising. Northern Idaho is filled with crazy, gold loving militants.
     
  6. rudan

    rudan Member

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    I agree the rancher is welfare trash, but the government seems to love turtles and chinese corporations more than American people.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member
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    It's actually so much worse than this.

    Not only were they armed, but they actually took up positions and aimed their weapons from sniper positions when federal agents were there.

    I'm sorry, I don't care what your position on this issue is, but these were American citizens taking up arms and pointing them at other American citizens operating under the direction of the government. These people were prepared to kill American operatives in defense of a man who is in violation of the law and ruled by three courts.

    That is treason.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Summer Song Giver

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    The next American revolution will certainly be interesting.
     
  9. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Contributing Member

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    Only in America. Crazy.

    I actually feel safer over here most of the time (day-to-day activity-wise), which still seems bewildering.
     
  10. RocketRaccoon

    RocketRaccoon Contributing Member

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    Started to type a few thoughts on this but decided it just not worth it. Lets just say I disagree with every point you made.

    signed, old man with a gun and a passion for these United States.
     
  11. Rashmon

    Rashmon Contributing Member

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    Agreed. The decision to de-escalate probably saved some lives on both sides.

    I wouldn't be surprised if there are not some no-knock warrants issued on some of these guys doors in the future. If not, I sure hope there is at least a dossier.
     
  12. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member
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    Yeah, the guy that is shown in the video laying on a bridge with his rifle aimed at the agents/spokesperson for the feds should be arrested when he goes home.
     
  13. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Contributing Member

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    Man...analogy overload.
     
  14. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    where is over here?
     
  15. Baba Booey

    Baba Booey Contributing Member

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    Rendition time. Make these gun-toting militiamen disappear.

    It was definitely smart for the government to de-escalate the situation to avoid a bloodbath, but part of me was hoping they'd crush these people extreme prejudice.
     
  16. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    F that guy using public land to make his living. Lease your own land if you want to have cattle.

    Nevada needs to just revoke all of these permits though. Taking the livestock if he had a permit is the governments fault.
     
  17. Bäumer

    Bäumer Contributing Member

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    Well cool...

    I wasn't really trying to make points or an argument there. I was oversimplifying a little to show how ridiculous I think the militant reactions of these civilians are. When I see videos about people discussing what ammo to bring, rules of engagement, offensive attacks, and tactical strategies to employ in this situation I see problems there. This issue does not need guns, they are adults who can talk things out with their words. Let these people protest as much as they want but leave the guns at home cowboy.

    signed, young (and probably foolish) man with a gun (minus the itchy trigger finger) and a passion for these United States
     
  18. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    The actual issue is that I know the mindset of these "militias". As someone who personally knows these individuals through my prior service in the Marine Corps, I can testify that majority of them can give two ****s about Bundy and the actual legal justification the state has over the land. What these militia groups really care about is creating a false narrative in order to be considered the new freedom fighter. These guys have a hard on for post apocalyptic anarchy and all they care about is running around in their plate carriers and AR-15s with every tactical attachment known to man because it's a bad ass look to them. To summarize: These dick heads will find any excuse to wear their tactical gear and point their shiny toys at actual people. It's more akin to a hobby for them.
     
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  19. Rashmon

    Rashmon Contributing Member

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    I'm being held by one of these militaristic fashionista's as we speak. I'm hoping to Git'mo, if you know what I mean.

    [​IMG]
     
  20. mc mark

    mc mark Contributing Member

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    A real patriot

     
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