No, instead you deleted 90% of the follow-up, then acted like nothing factual was said. At age 32, during the biggest QB dumpster fire in NFL history, Dre was ~30 yards from Larry's BEST yardage-season. Harrison played 5 games his 2nd to last season ('07). Who was Indy's #1 for 11 games? Here's a clue, Harrison wasn't a #1 his final year either.
I don't know that Moon was ever considered the best at his position for at least a 3 year stretch. I think he's definitely better than Moon. And on the excuses, I'm not sure why that started. Looking at Andre's stats the only place where you could argue he relatively underperformed was TDs (and let's not act like he never got TDs). Every other area he was elite. Stating that he was on an expansion team isn't an excuse, it's more of a what-if. No need to come up with excuses when he was putting up big numbers the whole time
No..... what you previously said was, Dre's numbers would decrease with a better QB. Saying "net-zero" now, is backtracking. Glad to see you've sobered up a little since then. Drink some water, take a nap, and try again later.
Let's put it this way Andre's numbers with Carr, a broken Schaub and Keenum: great Andre's numbers with pro bowl Schaub: great Andre's numbers with crappy teammates: great Andre's numbers with Arian Foster, DeAndre Hopkins and Owen Daniels: great
SMH, still arguing this? You've probably got a decade before Andre Johnson is even seriously considered for the HOF, why don't we table the discussion for now?
What is this "delete" bullshit? I'm not an administrator; I can't delete posts. You said two objectively wrong things; you then wrongly accused me of not doing something I had done. Those things all happened - nothing is being deleted. I don't give two ***** that you eventually clarified your statement, in large part because a) you were STILL wrong on Fitzgerald ("eventually"); b) rather than admit you were wrong, you tried to soften it by injecting bullshit qualifiers ("slightly"). No; you were wrong. If you meant something else, fine - admit you were wrong and clarify it. Otherwise, the rest of your post is meaningless to me. BTW, that post was the same one in which I answered your yes/no question, which you claim you never saw. So, which is it?... Yes; he also totaled 30 more targets. Fitzgerald's pace - had he netted 30 more targets - would have been 1,692 yards. Oh, and he would have scored 14 TDs - which is almost more than Johnson's two highest season totals combined (17). As is, Johnson scored 5 that year. Quantity doesn't always necessarily = quality Oh, do you mean the year Reggie Wayne led the league in yardage? Gee, I wonder what his career might've looked like if he hadn't been WR2 to a HoF WR the first six years of his career.....
While the details are indeed inconsistent, those are thematically consistent statements drawing the same conclusion: I don't think a great QB (better than Matt Schaub at his best) would have increased Andre Johnson's statistics. Stayed the same? Gone down? I mean... OK, you've got me. I guess my opinion is evolving. Bottom line: I never said that "bad QBs HELPED him." I was arguing better QBs wouldn't have made a difference.
You delete portions of a post, then when the poster mentions deletion, you act oblivious to anything about deletions. You enjoy being difficult. So you remember deleting now. Already explained this. If you weren't being difficult, you'd know and remember You argued prime.... Johnson wasn't prime. Fiitz should have a better pace. Did you "forget" arguing prime? Good thing for Wayne he wasn't a #2 his entire prime like you mentioned. Admit you were wrong about that....
My bad... didn't read your entire post. We'll just disagree. I think Dre's numbers would improve even with less targets. A better QB likely adds a few playoff runs.
All things considered, Fitzgerald is better candidate than Andre. When Larry is done, his receptions, yards, touchdown, and playoff run advantages make will make it pretty clear.
I dunno, I think Andre is at worst an equal candidate. He had a higher peak and more consistent performance with less help. Fitz inexplicably had 3 sub 1k yardage years in his prime. Andres totals were somewhat lower due to injuries but his per year averages were better Look at 2008-13. That's a long stretch in their primes where Andre was better. Only in 2011 was Larry better
if tony romo had been the qb, stats don' change nor do the number of playoff appearances. philosophy has a lot to do with that. I like running to pay dirt in the red zone rather than passing it and arian foster was automatic and the fakes to foster left every TE wide open. Another head coach with a differenct scheme and Dre's TDs would be up there with the best.
Dre has some nice checkpoints. Some only Jerry Rice has matched, and some Jerry can't match at all. I wished he hadn't fallen off so quickly. Two more 1000-yard seasons with 120 catches and 10 TDs would've served him VERY well. Fitzgerald's four 1400-yard seasons matches Dre's 4 (yes three 1500 is better overall), but Larry will likely finish with 1500+ more career yards, 100+ more receptions, 50% more TDs, and that historic playoff run. Larry has a clear edge IMO. Larry is the only one vs anyone not named Randy, Terrell, or Calvin. I hope Andre makes it.
Under-rated, Athletic, good leader A. Johnson > fake tough guy, over-rated, horrible leader, unathletic JJ Fatt
When you start looking at Red Zone targets, it's not hard to figure out why Andre only had the amount of TDs he had during some of his seasons. Kubiak loved to run in the red zone and also use the TEs. Meanwhile if you had put Andre Detroit from the time they got Stafford, he would've had just as many TDs as Calvin Johnson because of the amount of times they targeted him in the end zone. Most of those times were when he was covered or double covered but still went up and got it. That's a trait Andre had too, but Kubiak was just too conservative with his approach.
For the record, Johnson played with three different offensive regimes and none of them utilized him the red zone (Kubiak, at least, had an excuse - Foster may have been the best red zone running back in NFL history; certainly the best I've ever seen). It may be they were collectively dense about Johnson's potential red zone impact - but I find that hard to believe considering how often he was targeted between the 20s. And any notion of *any* receiver replacing Calvin Johnson... there's never been a physical freak like Calvin Johnson in the NFL. He was capable of outrunning, out-jumping and out-muscling any CB in football. You cannot simply put Andre in his placer and assume the same results.
