Im not sure why you are saying these trades "didn't work out" necessarily. -Jordan Hill- Throw in for the McGrady trade. Jordan Hill actually developed enough to become a starter for a part of the season for the Rockets his final season here, and netted them a first round pick from LA that I believe was the 18th from this past year that turned out to be Terrence Jones. Also, most importantly, the Jordan Hill experiment really proved that the Rockets development staff can take a raw talent like Hill who normally would be out of the league in 2 years, and create a niche for certain players. The niche that they created for him as a rotation energy C/PF who can come off the bench and gobble up rebounds is going to keep him in the league a long time. -T-Will- Self-Admittingly Morey worse move. However, the biggest blunder of this move might have been the communication that should have happened before the trade with Rick Adelman who refused to use Terrence at all because he was an on-the-ball player, and Adelman wanted the SF/SG in his system to be making back cuts, and coming off screens for open shots. T-Will was a terrible fit with Adelman. Im not saying T-Will could have become a different player in a different system, but I am saying it was just a bad fit all along to acquire a player like Terrence, and Terrence is mostly to blame for not adjusting his game to earn playing time so he could crawl before the coaches allowed him to walk. -Flynn- Throw in from a draft night trade- Was never considered anything more than a 3rd string PG behind Dragic/Lowry. The Rockets taking his salary off of Minnesota's hands on the draft night trade was a big reason why they were able to move down in the draft to take Motiejunas. -Thabeet- This was a salary dump for the Grizzlies. Thabeet was scheduled to make something like 8 million dollars if the Rockets picked up his option, and I think something like 5 million in salary that year. The Rockets took advantage of their capspace(credit Les for spending $ again for picks) to get a first round pick that ended up being used to eventually draft Motiejunas. Battier was traded here to Memphis because the Rockets were almost certainly not going to make the playoffs that year, and were not going to re-sign him to another long term deal. It was a kind gesture on the part of the Rockets and they benefited from it by getting a future first, and a big man they could take a look at for a few months. Not sure why people still hate this deal so damn much. ............................................................................................... That takes us to T-Rob- The book has yet to be written on Thomas Robinson in many different ways despite what some think about- A. His height, athleticism, and ability to finish at the rim B. His inability to improve enough to be a good NBA player and C. What the Rockets do with him to either benefit their quest to build a title contender or hurt their quest by him not being able to be moved to make space for Dwight/whomever in free agency. Much like the Jordan Hill trade, the Thabeet trade, and the Flynn trade, the deal itself however, was very much NOT ABOUT ROBINSON. This was a financial move in many ways. The Rockets took advantage of the Maloofs financial disadvantage, and got Robinson basically for Patrick Patterson who is a player that would have been much more difficult to move this Summer if they needed to shed his contract to make way for a free agent like Dwight... Or so it might have seen at the time. We can revist this trade later on after free agency, or if they dont get Dwight, we can take a look at how it worked out with Robinson having another year under his belt, and a full offseason to get used to the NBA game. However, you MUST take into consideration that the Robinson trade, like many others beforehand, was a financial trade more than anything, and the Rockets made the deal mostly to set themselves up better to build the core of their team into a championship contender.
Guys, We would not have been a freaking 8th seed!!!!!!! With Patterson (and Morris), we don't even play OKC, we get the #6 seed against an injured Denver. It was a bad trade in hindsight, because TRob did nothing and we are going to trade him for little on the dollar.
So PPat is a guaranteed extra 2 wins over a 28 game stretch? The Rockets for sure win 64% of their games if they keep PPat? Those aren't small assumptions.
And we would have lost to Denver and still be scrambling to trade Patterson and Morris for cap space. Morris netted us a high #2 would we get anything more for him now with teams knowing we need to trade for cap space? Robinson will likely net a future lottery protected #1, would Patterson net us that right now? I'm not sure but the net result seems about equal.
I dont think patterson and douglas would have played as well as garcia and beverly in the playoffs. It may have hurt us, but at least we developed a good small ball system that works defensively and we got to see which players need the most work. Dmo still needs work defensively Trob needs to work on slowing down the game and letting it come to him Tjones was a beast for 1 stretch during the regular season. He is the most ready out of the crop. Brooks still has his quickness Beverly developed into a great backup pg Garcia can be a quality starter on any nba team
Must object to this characterization. We had a credible shot at the playoffs until Battier was traded away.
What? We were getting better versus early in the season. We were jelling. It's not just PPatt, we had an immediate drop off in team chemistry. So, Yep! The trade cost us at least 2 games. Hell, look at the last two: Scola went 26-15 against us the 2nd to last game. Gasol (in and OT) went 17-20-11 triple double We had plenty of opportunity to win two games. And you can't tell me TRob of DMo won us anything. DMo was not ready. "Showcasing him" might have dropped his trade stock, actually. He'll still get his chance.
Exactly. Denver gave us a lot of problems during the regular season (faried is a beast) and lawson burned lin. We probably would have ended up losing in 6. I dont like patterson and mook chucking threes while faried crashes the boards and tips in baskets. He is too much for them. Iguadola, chandler, and miller would have gave harden more problems than sefolosha, martin, and fisher. We dont have to worry about waiving douglas. We can sign him for cheap if we let go of brooks and want him back. I think we got what mook was worth, the 34th pick in the draft which is much less than his salary. Trob is still only in the second year of his contract, while patterson has 1 year left. I think that matters more to gms. Why trade for an expiring contract like Patterson when you can sign him in the off-season? Plus, you get another year to see what he is worth. Long term, we are better off.....westbrook may never be the same. These are the facts.
We couldn't just let Patterson walk because his contract is guaranteed next season. Hill, Flynn and Thabeet were all just throw-ins on trades where we were able to acquire several first round picks. Also, Patterson and Morris weren't "high upside" guys. Both were considered to be solid players but neither one had star potential. If anything those guys could be considered "safe picks"
Beverley still would have beaten out Douglas. PPatt and Beverley would get us the #6 seed. We were playing small ball before the trade. The playoffs didn't teach us anything we didn't already know how to do. Besides, Garcia is gone and Delfino is likely gone, so that part of the small ball is not surviving anyhow. So, we just cut Garcia, and got nothing for him. And we are going to wholesale TRob, since he didn't show anything in his first year. PPatt is definitely a more valuable trade asset. Look, he landed us the #5 pick this year. :grin:
Ok...fair enough. There was still a shot of "Sneaking" into the playoffs. With that team though, they were not going to go far. Morey himself admitted this in interviews. Not that Memphis was necessarily a contender themselves, but they had a young core with an all-star player, and much like Garcia with the Rockets this year, Battier was someone that they thought could help them in a similar situation where they really wanted their young core learn from that playoff experience. With that Rockets team you are looking at a group of veteran role players with no all-star player. There isn't much to grown from or build upon with that roster.
People forget just how good GS was during the regular season. They were 3rd at one point. Just because they beat the nuggets doesnt mean we would have with patterson. Do you see us taking the spurs to 6 games?
They aren't big assumptions either. The drop from Patterson/Morris to DMo/Smith was huge. That's not because Pat or Morris were great players....DMo and Smith just weren't ready to play. The question isn't how many wins we would've added if we had Patterson. It's how many wins did DMo/Smith/TJones cost us. The offense lost both rhythm and versatility post trade. That said, Morey made the right move. At the time, we were in very good shape for making the playoffs, but the liklihood we would get out of the 1st round was pretty low. This was a trade for the future.
Good post. I agree, too, about the trade. I was certainly not against it. But as a "trade for the future," we are always going to have to measure that against the trade value or play we get from TRob, because PPatt's value was pretty measurable, and won't drop off anytime soon. Team chemistry is a valuable thing, and often very fragile.
Morey said after the trade, he realized that the team might be weakened in the short run, but that his duty was to make a championship caliber team. But Garcia proved to be a much needed player. Especially with Delfino getting so banged up near the end of the season. T-Rob being a player Morey had targeted in the draft. And the cap room the trade created. Pattrick Patterson was not a top of the line power forward. He is a suitable backup big, but his rebounding inability pretty much forced the guards to get the rebounds - and how many time were they out of position because their job was to get rebounds Asik didn't get!
If we would've kept PPAT we would've won the West and waiting for the Heat come on guys Relax people! Morey has a plan gotta believe!!!!!!!
