(Poll) do you support extending healthcare coverage to undocumented immigrants

Funny how I don't get free healthcare...

 

If you are of the caucasian persuasion then you don’t deserve it. You’ve had it way too good for too long, it’s time to pay. It’s been a good run I guess.

 

Exactly I don’t know how I can say that so many times and still elicit the same nonsensical response.

Mass detention and deportation is a massive tax payer expense. Giving temp visas and sponsorship with the ability to collect taxes on income is a good economic decision until we have a huge surplus of labor workers which is in need right now. We get a lot out even illegal immigrants if we put them into our workforce doing the jobs nobody else will do. We get a massive expensive economic burden if we detain and deport all of them.

Exhibit A. Is the massive spending bill Congress just signed off on. We are needlessly flushing money down the drain right now. Fiscal conservatives should understand this but no.... the racial anxiety is all they think about.

 

I totally agree that we cannot take care of everyone in the world and the US citizen comes first. I am not an open borders free for all kind of voter and I actually cringed when Castro made the comment he did at the debate about making crossings a civil offense because I know how that’ll play when people really get a grasp of what that means.

What I’m talking about is a method of processing immigrants. Legal and illegal. Not sending border patrol and customs home and calling it a free for all.

If you gave clearer pathways those migrants would have less incentive to cross illegally too. But for those that do cross or have crossed illegally in the past, rather than just throw them in a cage for months or spending hundreds to thousands to deport, just send them to the customs processing center and have a sponsorship visa that can be issued if that person is not deemed as a threat. If you want them to pay a price fine.. but it makes sense for that higher price to be more tax revenue for the country than spending tax dollars when it makes sense to do that with a non threat immigrant.

I just think it’s common sense. And there’s a reason why there’s bipartisan support for immigration reform bills that do much of what I’m saying. It’s only when the Republican political establishment needs to prepare for an election that a bill to do this doesn’t see the light of day. Because in the end, fear and racial anxiety drive their voters to the polls. It’s dumb, wastes a ton of money, creates a racist foundation for future generations, and is extremely inhumane in the process.

 

Dude stop with the disingenuous comments. Even Bernie is honest and says your taxes go up to pay for healthcare in a Medicare for all system. You pay nothing out to a private insurance company but your taxes go up. It’s a good deal you’d except with a smile on your face if the taxes you paid were less than what you pay now monthly and the quality of health care didn’t drop.

And as I’ve said if we “give for free” healthcare to an illegal immigrant that means we have processed them and they are moving forward with a sponsorship visa where they will pay taxes on their income.

The only time the US government would have to provide something truly free is when they use our emergency rooms or when we detain them for long periods of time and provide expensive room and board.

Not sure why this is so complicated to understand but more than likely you do understand but just making a disingenuous argument that doesn’t exist.

 

I don't think we want the government giving boom jobs to random citizens.

Sure, a boom job sounds exciting, and okay, maybe she didn't know what she was doing, but I found my only boom job experience a little painful.

 

What makes you think govt healthcare would be cheaper and better? Just allow interstate competition and stop price fixing.

 

Turning a sure winning issue into a potential losing issue. DEM are pretty good at that.

 

Did I say it would be?

If a Medicare for all plan debits and credits worked out financially in some serious CBO scored proposals I think that’s the first step. Let’s make sure the average American is really paying less.

Second step is a serious analysis of provider care. The older members of my family that have Medicare seem to love it. Especially the old timer Trumpers in my family.

But to be honest I would want the candidate I end up voting for to run on protect and grow. Meaning fix Obamacare right away on day one with some of the quick fixes you can do with bipartisan support, and then do the homework to put in committee an expansion bill. Give a committee 100 days to write a bipartisan expansion bill that must include some form of a public option.

And honestly if any Dem won the presidency without a super majority in Congress would realistically do this. Having the ability in Congress to pass Medicare for all in 2021 with so many Republicans just isn’t happening. But right now all the Dem candidates are focused on making sure they have support from the Bernie wing of the party. But the fact is even Bernie would be forced to do what I just said and not Medicare for all IF he actually won the presidency.

 

You're right, it's not the same. In the same way that oil changes and tire rotations are different from engine block replacements. However, we do know that neglecting basic, routine healthcare needs often results in major problems later. And as we all know, emergency medicine is orders of magnitude more expensive and less effective than routine healthcare.

This is a bad attempt at the slippery slope fallacy.

This is a great idea if you don't want to solve the problem, are A-OK with losing even more money, and want to create needless hostility abroad.

We don't need to end the incentives that we all benefit from (education, healthcare, and the like). We need to overhaul our purposefully obtuse and endless naturalization process, end the immigration shadow world, and harness the power of our position as a destination country. To a lesser extent, it also wouldn't hurt to work on changing our laws and policies (drug criminalization, foreign aid, etc) that create situations in Central and South America that people want to leave in the first place.

There's a whole lot to get into here, but the basics go like this:

1) It's significantly more expensive to put someone in prison than not
2) It's significantly more expensive to find, monitor, apprehend, detain, process, adjudicate, and deport someone than not
3) It's significantly more expensive to put someone in the hospital than to send them to a doctor on RNP once or twice a year
4) It's significantly more expensive to have someone be uneducated than not (typically because of #1 and #3, but also because sheer productivity)

So, while it may IRK THE **** out of the orderly conservative brain to give people who aren't citizens (perceived agents of chaos) access to education, healthcare, and most importantly not defining them as criminals, it is absolutely in our best interest that we do.

Now, that being said, all of this starts with changing our naturalization process. Create a new class of non-citizen resident that is easily obtainable. Create a clear path to citizenship with a reasonable timeframe (15~ years seems fair... one generation). Hell, tax these folks higher than citizens if you want to, or bar them from voting in federal elections, idk... whatever makes the it politically possible, but we have to get our heads on straight about this issue. Democrats have to be willing to compromise, and Republicans have to be willing to put aside their feelings.

You would if (most) Democrats had their way.

 

No. I would pay for it with higher taxes and you would to. It is only free for illegal crossers... genius.

 

They would also pay for it with higher taxes.

 

You're already paying for it, and you're paying a lot more than you would otherwise (this includes everyone without access to healthcare, not just immigrants). Also, illegal immigrants pay taxes, but that is another area for improvement as noted in my post above.

 

illegals dont pay taxes... they work under the table... and they dont belong.

 

I live abroad and don't use the
health system these days, but I do pay taxes and I pay for leeches to take advantage of us.

The lot of you have so much faith in the govt to handle this right when prices are high because the govt got involved. Free up interstate competition and companies will lower prices and compete. Govt endeavors are usually not cheap and not efficient. Plus I don't want more illegal immigrants clogging up a system for americans and legal residents.

We cannot take care of everyone. That is why no one walks up to a restaraunt expecting free food. The owner would laugh at you. Why do people come to america expecting free healthcare?

The amount of lies in this thread are amazing. Saying they would pay taxes lol. Simply not true. These are not people who follow the law and you cannot even prove half pay taxes. This is further revenue lost.

 

Yes, it makes little economic sense to push them into our ER system. But why should the tax payers foot the bills and continue the status-quo? And why would we want to encourage more undocumented immigrants?

The answers should be conditionally as part of a full immigration reform. Reform our temporary work visa program to bring everyone out of the shadow. Have a temporary work program that serve the need of the US (economy, employers, all residents). Severe punishment for anyone (private residents included, but especially employers) to hire undocumented workers. Pathway for residency and even citizenship is sponsored and paid by the hiring company, or outside organization (Churches, whoever) with full government regulation. Enhance border monitoring and protection.

For those already here for an extended time.... we basically open a full pathway for them to be here, taking full advantage of them. We have a responsibility to handle them with care - no family separation, and with a pathway to perm resident or even citizenship. Put whatever requirements in that make you feel better - penalty, military service, whatever.

What we shouldn't do is continue with nonsense policy and dehumanize people. A freaking physical wall- you got to be kidding me. Family separation and detainment? Inhuman and cost too much, while losing focus over the violence criminals. It's all cool and good, just open the border and let anyone in. Right. Ignore federal and international laws on refugee. Endless partisan back and forth with no sensible solution.

 

Please tell me more about this.

 

“Working under the table”.... not sure what you mean here but if they are working cash only jobs that means the American middle class consumer is getting a price break on services provided.

As I mentioned before sponsorship programs are a major benefit here where if they have some level of visa contingent on employment it incentivizes real employment in order to stay in the country. That means taxable income. My company does this already for foreign workers we have from the UK and Asia. My company acts as the sponsor. We’ve had to let go of some really good employees because my company is no longer able to sponsor them under some of the new policies that changed recently.

In this case a home builder like David Weekly, or a farm that needs workers, etc. can be a sponsor. We just have to make sure the sponsors aren’t abusing these migrant workers and they have the same rights as normal workers to protect from another inhumane crisis breaking out.

So you are sort of lying here. Yes some immigrants are working cash only jobs. That doesn’t mean they need to though if we had sensible policies that easily allowed for sponsorships that brought in taxable income. If someone is making a living with a cash only job at worst you and I have cheap services available that saves consumer spending. That’s worst case scenario.

 

losing strategery