Newsflash - nobody outside of Houston really cares about the Astros all that much. Even if they had a team full of priests... if they continue to win all the time, most fans of other local teams tend to dislike that. The Warriors have also taken on head cases from other teams and made them better. Dynasties are not polarizing... winning does alleviate all this other social bullshit that suddenly everybody with a keyboard is now a member of the morality police. It sports... most of these guys are womanizing, cheating assholes that care more about themselves than anybody else.
I was referring to all the people who sympathized with us due to Harvey. I doubt they would have if they had Osuna then. That's what I meant with "out of market". Also, outside of Houston, I would really like to see us build/maintain strong fanbases Austin and San Antonio.
Completely agree. If something like this unravels the team (I don't think it will) they just didn't have the mental resolve to become a dynasty in the first place. Osuna's value to the team should be measured by his on-field contributions, how well he gets along with his teammates and how he conducts himself in this community. If Osuna comes in and treats his teammates and Coaches with respect and makes an effort to build relationships with them but all guys like Verlander and McCullers care about is that he allegedly committed a crime one year ago and they can't get past it to the point it starts to affect their focus and performance...then maybe our guys aren't the stand-up/great guys we thought they were. Stand up guys don't judge because they understand and accept that all human beings are flawed and judging others does absolutely nothing to contribute to society. All it does is make you feel better about yourself...but if you are a stand up guy you care about more than just yourself. Hinch seems like the perfect Manager to be able to handle this situation. A truly level headed man and a true leader. You mentioned dynasties taking chances. One of the qualities that made Phil Jackson so successful was his ability to incorporate guys with big ego's and checkered pasts into his team's culture. This could be a great growth opportunity for Hinch. It could be that one of the reasons Luhnow was willing to take this risk is that he trusts Hinch to keep the team clubhouse atmosphere highly positive and collaborative.
Nobody really felt bad for the Astros. They felt bad for the city. They would still feel bad for the city if something like that happened again, regardless of the makeup of their pro sports teams. If you win... you maintain a strong fanbase everywhere, especially locally. The Astros lost those fan bases before, not because they were being populated by a bunch of bad guys, but simply because they were bad. Likewise, when the Rangers were winning... it didn't matter that they had former steroid abusers, former convicted felons, and previous DWI offenders on their team.
I bet you ANYTHING that if the Yanks, Dodgers, or Sox, had traded for Osuna, you and a bunch of others would be complaining we look too much at character and don't care about winning.. It's a double standard on the boards, we just gotta accept it I guess. Also, you have no idea what we could have got for that same package.. I highly doubt we could get Herrera or Britton for Giles and two failing prospects... we also have no idea how this will play out. People don't seem to hate Chapman anymore.
Osuna has led the league in blown saves since 2016. Great stuff and K/BB rate, but never had an elite ERA and routinely blows saves. Need to know why. As far as character, it's obviously not good. Whatever an abuser does in public, he does twice as much in private. What's caught on camera that results in half a season with no pay for domestic abuse in the MLB... is more than bickering. It's more than a push. People are desperate to justify the abuse so they can root for him, but guess what. You don't have to. He can do his job, you can root for him to do it, than forget about him and get on with your life. Don't buy your kids Osuna jerseys. The whole moral high ground thing because "innocent until proven guilty" is a joke. He's guilty, cops have pics and videos, and he paid the price. It's talent you need and in all walks of life you know not everyone is privy to the same judgments. Osuna slipped up, but he's not slipping up again after his suspension and all the heat on him. I just hope he doesn't do anything in private. Luhnow had to take a PR chance with the many, many missed opportunities over the course of the year. Now quite a few prospects have been lost for cheap, cost controlled players and since there are no bats that fit the M.O., the Astros 2nd biggest need is missing while an extra reliever (Pressly) and defensive catcher (Maldonado) took away prospects in the past week. There's no point condemning Osuna over and over again, just judge him based on performances, root for the rest of the team and use it to teach your kids something valuable in life.
I don't think any Patriots or Yankees fans are thinking about what you think of their team. (Particularly their championship teams) If the Astros when the championship I'm never going to damper my memories of it with "Well, we had Osuna so there's an asterisk on that year" We still are a likable good guy team. Giving a guy a second chance is a good guy move. He was a 22 year old kid who made a huge mistake. The allegations are abhorrent. Nothing will ever justify his actions. But I don't think fans regret their teams having players like Ben Rothelisberger, Ray Lewis, Jason Kidd, Dennis Rodman, or Warren Sapp on their teams. Half of them are widely respected in the media now, despite making similar mistakes to Osuna. It's a hot story, the media is going to take advantage of it and blow it out of proportion. It's entertainment. ESPN turns sport into a Tele-novela.
Don't speak for me. I wouldn't have been complaining if those teams got Osuna. I would be saying like I'm saying about the Astros, they are taking a huge risk bringing in baggage that could cause more harm than good. I stand by what I said earlier, there were other options out there. The more I think of it and the more that comes out about everything surrounding this thing, this is a disappointing move by the organization and is bringing unneeded heat and possible baggage. Again imo this just wasn't a rout the organization had to take. If you are one of those fans who want to back the organization no matter what than that's your right. I have the right to be disappointed.
It can't be that bad. Tonya harding beat up her boyfriend and still had a good movie made about her. Jason Kidd was the hero that crumbled the king. Dennis Rodman? He's a head of state for North Korea now. Pretty boy floyd still counting money after not paying taxes. Damn, there are a lot of guys with domestic violence. I still would rather it be another team's problem and would have liked Zach Britton instead. All we can do is hope Osuna reforms.
Looks like the Yankees started a trend of poaching players who's value drops after DV suspensions. Luhnow has been very, very ordinary outside the Cole trade over 7 years, banking on an unprecedented number of top draft picks from intentionally tanking. His lackadaisical approach to closers has cost him, having to bail on the supposed morals he wants for an organization to poach a talent to cover his ass. https://sports.yahoo.com/trading-roberto-osuna-houston-astros-show-no-conscience-134758777.html
Jameis Winston grabbed an uber driver's crotch... He plays for a losing team... no one cares. I get what he did was bad, but the social justice warriors just cant wait to grab their keyboards sometimes... let's at least see what comes of it before you just condemn him to hell.
I think most reasonable fans will back any move that is geared towards winning. A 23 year old above average relief pitcher, with club control, is a pretty damn good acquisition. Would have more concerns about any former injury prone players, any former roiders, or any former malcontents that demanded a trade. I'm also not naive enough to believe that all the current Astros, as well as former Astros, are a bunch of saints.
I don't think it's about being a social justice warrior. For some of us, we've seen domestic violence with family members. It's okay to feel uncomfortable about the move.
From a purely baseball perspective it could be seen as a good deal but what about the teammates having to answer all the awkward questions about being his teammate and again the other baggage that comes with it. Yes no one is saying any of these guys are saints but going out knowingly getting baggage that could cause some waves is an absolute huge risk. And I'm sure it's also a turnoff to the Astros' fans who are domestic abuse survivors. These things are important too imo but in the end like I said in an earlier post as well most of these organizations are ultimately in it to win it at all cost. Just have to be ready to suffer possible consequences of taking these types of risk.
True, didn't really look at it that way. And I am not blindly backing the team either. We just really don't know what happened. I guess I meant to say "lets delay judgment", not "I don't care about your judgment" that's my miscomunication
On a STRICTLY baseball note... as far as him blowing the most saves since 2016.. I am pretty sure GILES has the best save % in the league right now. So I don't really care about that. And if he is going to blow a one run lead, okay, but can he hold on to a 4 run lead? SWEET.
Things like "baggage" and "morale" and "momentum" are typically fan-driven, and media-driven, entities that actually don't permeate the actual members of a professional sports team. Is Osuna sitting in the bullpen going to make George Springer distracted when he's facing a 3-2 pitch in the first inning? Is it going to cause Justin Verlander to hang his slider? Is it going to cause Cole to lose a few ticks off his spin rate? On the flip-side, if Osuna does his job well... is anybody going to not try and support him? Or not shake his hand after every game? Or not lead to a boost of sorts towards the other bullpen pitchers who may be currently overused or not up for the more pressurized roles? If anything, this has a huge upside... with very limited downside, since the overall investment in acquiring him, and what they owe him, is paltry.
First off, the Astros had to address their bullpen and they certainly did that adding Osuna and Pressly. The Astros now have a closer and another guy to pitch the 6-8th inning. Further, both guys will be back in 2019. Second, Osuna has only had one year when he blew a lot of saves, and that was in 2017 when he was 39 for 49 or 80%. The other seasons he has averaged a save completion percentage of of 88%; which is very good. He also has a history of pitching exceptional in the post season. Third, the Astros haven't really lost very many good prospects this trade deadline. In fact he has some how managed to add an elite closer, a very solid strike out set up man and a back up catcher for very little..... all the Astros top prospects remain. Yes I would like the Astros to add a bat as well, but I haven't seen many really good bats moving at the deadline. Also the Astros can always get a bat at the waiver deadline if necessary. Overall Luhnow has done quite well this deadline, filling three needs without touching his top 10 prospects.
