The league did try to tweak that, but ultimately I cant see any way you can change it. If you go up normally for a completely legit jump shot, no swinging your arms sideways, how can you ever legislate that out? And that's what all of Harden's shots are this season. It isn't like last year where he was going around a screen and firing up some trash to get a foul on a guy trying to fight around it. These are normal jump shots. If they mandate "incidental" contact on jumpers to be OK, then you are opening pandora's box.
Not sure what the beef is about the foul calls Harden is getting... The only questionable move is the hook move, and he's rarely done that this year, basically removing that from his game all-together because the refs are calling it. I disagree with the league, the hook move is NOT an offensive foul, it's a no call. The offensive player must "gain an advantage" in order for a foul to be called. Hooking someone as you go into the shooting motion is putting yourself in an obvious disadvantage, which should be a no call. All the rest of the fouls this year are because players get into Harden's shooting space and he quickly goes into the shooting motion, capitalizing on a defender's mistake. You don't want to foul Harden? Stay out of his space.
Anyone here that has seen how Shane Battier played defense back when he was with the Rockets should have no problem at all with this. Shane Battier was by far one of the smartest and most disciplined defenders the Rockets ever had, and he face guarded his opponents. He doesn't stick his hands in the cookie jar and pick up cheap fouls. He instead puts his hands in front of the opponent's face. Defensive players today have low discipline. They put their hands literally above the shooters' arm in hopes that they can reach in and get an easy steal, but the risk involved with doing that is an easy foul picked up when the shooter pulls up. Shane Battier rarely ever did that, and would instead opt to put his hands up and in front of the shooter's face to restrict vision. His disciplined defense won't get you easy steals, but it won't get you cheap fouls either.
That's what I have noticed. In the past he has no doubt had some sketchy ways to draw fouls, but they have (correctly) changed the rules to stop them. He is still drawing a ton of fouls, and no doubt taking advantage of foul drawing situations, but there is nothing unsporting about it. If defenders were more disciplined on the perimeter these "cheap" fouls would stop happening.
I respect @OTMax's opinion about free throws not being aesthetically pleasing to him, but they don't bother me one bit. I appreciate that Harden is a master of manipulation and every year comes up with a new way to trick players into fouling him, while at the same time forcing the refs to call it. He's a genius. I don't care if opponents or opposing fans find our style of play to be ugly, I just want to win.
Would you like to get the World's Strongest Slam put on you? Fouls are Fouls. The rules are the rules. Harden is taking full advantage of the rules and no matter ticky tack or not, they're fouls and Harden is keeping that in his advantage. LOL "Ticky Tack"! Let me guess? You think Dez caught the ball as well?
just curious have OP ever created a thread to whine about our strategy to foul Roberson and send him to the FT line in last years playoffs?
Basketball is a sport which relies heavily on PUTTING THE BALL INTO THE BASKET, so when you try to do it and somebody hits you on the arm, whether he intends or not, it is a foul, Now if you are just trying to swing your arm across your defender's arm just for the sake of swinging, it is not a foul but if you are actually trying to shoot the ball, then it is something which will affect your shooting, i believe this is the logic behind this being as a foul, unless the League changes this rule, i guess it is what it is. But i agree, relying on this come playoff time is not ideal, it might backfire when it really counts.......
This thread would have been a lot more reasonable last year, when Harden was actually getting unfair calls by exploiting rules. However, the league has cracked down, and I honestly see very few (if any) unjustifiable calls now. They've already gotten rid of the swing-through, which is a horizontal movement of the arms. Harden now draws fouls only in the instance where the defender is putting his hand in the cookie jar. He's going up vertically with his arms into a legit shooting motion. Whether or not he is going up solely to get the foul is irrelevant in this case since it's entirely within the confines of the rulebook. In fact, the league has gone too far to significantly reduce and 1 plays, which has actually been to the exasperation of the ENTIRE league - not just the Rockets.
It’s a foul. Harden attacks the basket a lot and he has strong hands so he generally does not lose the ball on drives so it ends up with him getting whacked. As far as rip through jump shot fouls. You reach I teach *shrugs*
Free throws have always been part of the game. Most great scorers have shot many free throws. Because sometimes there's no other way to stop them. Move on.
You know what is not appealing. . . MUGBALL Where the defense can push and tug and mug the offensive player all game Rocket River
Maybe I'm a weirdo, but I actually enjoy watching players exploit the rules to their advantage, and do everything in their power to win the game. It's a smart thing to do, and tbh I would do the same if I was put in that situation. You look at every millionaire or billionaire, and most of them are not 100% squeaky clean 'good boy' types. They always push the boundaries of what is acceptable... some people don't like that kind of mindset, but I can tell you that's how most successful people operate, otherwise you're quickly gonna get out-competed in the market. Of course, this is very different from acting illegally or committing a crime. So this doesn't justify hurting other players or some type of extreme behavior. Always play within the rules, but know where the boundaries are. That's how you gain the edge. The only thing that I don't want to see Harden do is the hooking-the-arm thing, because I really don't think that's a legal move.
Nothing bothers me except when Harden is clearly playing only for the foul instead of making an honest attempt at a play, which in the past has gotten him in trouble in certain games (especially playoffs) because the refs will suddenly quit calling stuff, and then we get a turnover and Harden is complaining instead of keeping his head in the game. I'm actually glad the refs started no-calling early this season because if anything it's helped Harden get mentally stronger, as galling as it is to see him get clotheslined and not get a call or continuation.
"Chicks dig the long ball" LeBron noticed it too that he's getting hacked constantly driving to the basket, but the refs are calling it less; meanwhile they are calling fouls on outside shot attempts at the same rate. I don't blame OP for making this thread, since he favors the 2pt jumpshot so much.
I saw against Utah las night, he drew three FTs with the old rip through move... I thought they weren't gonna call that any more?
They are fouls and should be called as such. In fact it is a point of emphasis of Popovich that the Spurs defenders keep their hands back and not reach. They are pretty disciplined with that but every once in a while they get lazy and foul. And Pop gets that look on the sideline. Do I hav a problem with the Rockets doing what the can within the rules to score to win the game. No I do not.
I still don't get it. Harden is getting fouled at the perimeter? Why would anyone not like it if it is correctly called? This poll is like "free money, like it or dislike it?" Again why would league office do something about the blatant foul? To not to call it a foul if it is on Harden? or to call it a tech for each reaching in?
Honestly don't mind him and his craftiness he uses to draw the fouls, its the unnecessary complaining he does after that tends to bother me at times. I get it, you have to be vocal in your opinion or else the refs ignore you but sometimes the media/camera stays on the player's reaction for too long and it just looks like whining at that point because we can't hear whats being said (with the facial expressions + jumping up and down). When the opposition reaches in to foul Harden, it's a foul. Nothing wrong with him drawing the foul, the fans who are complaining about it are mostly the fans on the opposite side of the call. Everyone in the entire league knows Harden is going to try to draw a foul every time he goes in for a layup, not sure why they don't make their players practice just going straight up on defense..
